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Is there a FileSystem framework without AI features? (programming.dev)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/webdev@programming.dev
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While getting quotes for a site recently the question of filesystem came up a lot and I admittedly didn't know much on the subject.

Doing some research the popular choices appear to be either PHP frameworks or less often ASP.NET frameworks.

Among popular PHP frameworks I see Laravel come up a lot, open source is certainly more reliable than something maintained by Google, Facebook, or Amazon but currently the Laravel maintainers are pushing AI really really hard.

So is the only real solution to learn to program with PHP without using any frameworks or libraries? Can anybody who has implemented a secure fileserver for a website tell me how difficult or easy it would be to learn?

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[+] [S] -20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Nah, disagreement on semantics. I used Framework to broadly describe codebases which do a ton of work that a developer can rely on without building their own from scratch, which is accurate. Every mechanism or benefit that Cloudflare CDNJS provides for the user could technically be done by the developers themselves, as unlikely as that is.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I mean, that's simply an incorrect definition and not what anyone means when they use the word, speaking as a senior engineer working on web applications over the last 10 years. Such a broad definition is practically meaningless since it encompasses pretty much everything in programming.

    A database is 100% not a "framework", it is a software application that allows clients to retrieve data by supplying queries in a dedicated DSL.

    cdnjs is also decidedly not a framework, nor is any other CDN. CDNs are an infrastructural component in networking that allows content to be cached in servers that are geographically distributed over large distances in order to reduce the effects of network transmission time (since content can be served from servers closer to the client). It has very little to do with programming.

    A framework is a library (or possibly, set of related libraries) in a programming language that aims to be very "batteries-included", insofar as the programmer gives up precise control over the program they are creating in exchange for having many commonly-needed things for the task (typically, SPAs or web servers) already done for them. The reason I said it's perhaps ill-defined as a word is that the line between what counts as a library and what counts as a framework is a bit blurry.

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  • [+] [S] -10 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    You tell me my definition is wrong and then confidently churn out the same definition.

    You can code the mechanisms for a CDN. You might not have the servers to run it on, but you can. It is a framework

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    It is not at all the same definition. A CDN is not a programming language library, which is how I had defined frameworks (with other qualifiers). All frameworks are (one or more) libraries in a programming language. A CDN is, ultimately, a network of running servers that serve up content. It's a distribution mechanism for content, not a method of building software applications (which is what frameworks are). You can use a CDN to deliver the code for a framework/library to a web browser (or anywhere else, really), but that is not the same as saying that it is a framework itself, because it is not.

    A bunch of people in this thread, including myself, have been trying to help answer your original question (part of which is clarifying terms, since you seem to be confused about how things work, which is understandable for someone inexperienced), and yet you've been very combative and lashing out at people in spite of describing yourself as an amateur. When experts in the field correct your misunderstandings, it's wise to learn from the information you're given rather than telling everyone that they are wrong. Your attitude will not get you very far and will simply make people unwilling to help you learn.

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  • [+] [S] -7 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    A CDN is not a programming language library

    You think they were just magicked into existence? Nah, they were programmed, and you can use specific syntax to call upon their functions.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    What, praytell, is this supposed syntax? A curl invocation? Including a link to a CDN resource in an HTML <script> tag?

    A URL on the web is not what anyone would call a framework, I'm sorry to say. Is www.google.com a framework? Google programmed the server serving the content at that URL, right? Or what, is it only special URLs that only programmers use? Is your operating system a "framework"? Someone programmed that too, right? How about your coffee maker? That's also something someone programmed.

    It's funny how the wikipedia article on CDNs doesn't mention the word "framework" once, yet the article on a real framework like React mentions the word 8 times and links to other frameworks and lists of frameworks.

    Maybe, just maybe, it has a more narrow definition than "someone programmed it so you don't have to".

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