▲ 379 ▼ At Least 260 Killed At Israeli Music Festival In Hamas Attack (www.forbes.com) submitted 2 years ago by Imhotep@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world 83 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] rivermonster@sh.itjust.works 101 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (2 children) I mean it is essentially murdering people partying on people's graves - not proportional but I can't imagine people didnt know it was a provocation. Its tragic but I think unless people start calling the Israeli government's decades of murders and evictions "terrorism" it seems like the press is very much deciding how people should see "Hamas as the sole villain" and I think there's a certain amount of justified pushback here thats being misinterpreted as "support for Hamas" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id 28 points 2 years ago (1 child) IMO from this outlook the entire planet is covered in graves and we all are bad for living our life. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Provoking something by living your life doesn't mean you're bad. It just means you're taking a risk that the dust has settled. The people that died in the attack aren't any worse than anyone here, they were put in this position by the israeli government and its policies. Israel has more bodies than Hamas in this fight. There are two villains here and its unfortunate the press only describes one as terrorists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id -1 points 2 years ago I'm unaware of the exact history b/w both the groups to give any sound judgement so I will refrain from doing it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] snek@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago Hamas being equated with the entirety of the Palestinian people and diaspora is what pisses me off the most. Israel tries to equate them all together so it can commit genocide without any eye-batting. permalink fedilink source parent [+] gmtom@lemmy.world -25 points 2 years ago (2 children) Can you lot stop throwing out the word war crime to try and make things sound worse and get an emotional response. Killing civilians is not actually a war crime by itself. Israel does not recognise Palestine as a country or Hamas as a government, so they cannot be legally at war therefore it can't be a war crime. Also as far as I'm aware Palestine is not a signatory to any convention on war crimes anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] rivermonster@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gmtom@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Can you name a single participant in a single (active) war that did not kill civilians? Saying all war is a war crime, kind of makes war crimes pointless. And then even if we accept im wrong on that point (which honestly, im willing to do) my other points still stand. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) If we put the perpetuators in charge of defining, what constitutes as a crime and what doesn't, there would be no crime anywhere and never. If a nations military or other organized fighters are conducting operations the terms and rules for war crimes should apply and the perpetuators and organizers should be held responsible. That goes for Hamas fighters and leaders as well as IDF soldiers and leaders. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gmtom@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yes, thats probably how it should be, but thats not how it actually is. Hence why the US doesnt sign conventions on war crimes either. and why we dont talk about terrorist groups like Al Queda as being war criminals. permalink fedilink source parent [+] deegeese@sopuli.xyz -26 points 2 years ago State sponsor of terrorism victimized by terrorist attack. Yes it’s horrible, but partying on stolen land is reckless. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (2 children) I mean it is essentially murdering people partying on people's graves - not proportional but I can't imagine people didnt know it was a provocation. Its tragic but I think unless people start calling the Israeli government's decades of murders and evictions "terrorism" it seems like the press is very much deciding how people should see "Hamas as the sole villain" and I think there's a certain amount of justified pushback here thats being misinterpreted as "support for Hamas" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id 28 points 2 years ago (1 child) IMO from this outlook the entire planet is covered in graves and we all are bad for living our life. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Provoking something by living your life doesn't mean you're bad. It just means you're taking a risk that the dust has settled. The people that died in the attack aren't any worse than anyone here, they were put in this position by the israeli government and its policies. Israel has more bodies than Hamas in this fight. There are two villains here and its unfortunate the press only describes one as terrorists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id -1 points 2 years ago I'm unaware of the exact history b/w both the groups to give any sound judgement so I will refrain from doing it. permalink fedilink source parent [–] snek@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago Hamas being equated with the entirety of the Palestinian people and diaspora is what pisses me off the most. Israel tries to equate them all together so it can commit genocide without any eye-batting. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id 28 points 2 years ago (1 child) IMO from this outlook the entire planet is covered in graves and we all are bad for living our life. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Provoking something by living your life doesn't mean you're bad. It just means you're taking a risk that the dust has settled. The people that died in the attack aren't any worse than anyone here, they were put in this position by the israeli government and its policies. Israel has more bodies than Hamas in this fight. There are two villains here and its unfortunate the press only describes one as terrorists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id -1 points 2 years ago I'm unaware of the exact history b/w both the groups to give any sound judgement so I will refrain from doing it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Provoking something by living your life doesn't mean you're bad. It just means you're taking a risk that the dust has settled. The people that died in the attack aren't any worse than anyone here, they were put in this position by the israeli government and its policies. Israel has more bodies than Hamas in this fight. There are two villains here and its unfortunate the press only describes one as terrorists. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id -1 points 2 years ago I'm unaware of the exact history b/w both the groups to give any sound judgement so I will refrain from doing it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheMadnessKing@lemdro.id -1 points 2 years ago I'm unaware of the exact history b/w both the groups to give any sound judgement so I will refrain from doing it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] snek@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago Hamas being equated with the entirety of the Palestinian people and diaspora is what pisses me off the most. Israel tries to equate them all together so it can commit genocide without any eye-batting. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] gmtom@lemmy.world -25 points 2 years ago (2 children) Can you lot stop throwing out the word war crime to try and make things sound worse and get an emotional response. Killing civilians is not actually a war crime by itself. Israel does not recognise Palestine as a country or Hamas as a government, so they cannot be legally at war therefore it can't be a war crime. Also as far as I'm aware Palestine is not a signatory to any convention on war crimes anyway. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] rivermonster@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gmtom@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Can you name a single participant in a single (active) war that did not kill civilians? Saying all war is a war crime, kind of makes war crimes pointless. And then even if we accept im wrong on that point (which honestly, im willing to do) my other points still stand. permalink fedilink source parent [–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) If we put the perpetuators in charge of defining, what constitutes as a crime and what doesn't, there would be no crime anywhere and never. If a nations military or other organized fighters are conducting operations the terms and rules for war crimes should apply and the perpetuators and organizers should be held responsible. That goes for Hamas fighters and leaders as well as IDF soldiers and leaders. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gmtom@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yes, thats probably how it should be, but thats not how it actually is. Hence why the US doesnt sign conventions on war crimes either. and why we dont talk about terrorist groups like Al Queda as being war criminals. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] rivermonster@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gmtom@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Can you name a single participant in a single (active) war that did not kill civilians? Saying all war is a war crime, kind of makes war crimes pointless. And then even if we accept im wrong on that point (which honestly, im willing to do) my other points still stand. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gmtom@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Can you name a single participant in a single (active) war that did not kill civilians? Saying all war is a war crime, kind of makes war crimes pointless. And then even if we accept im wrong on that point (which honestly, im willing to do) my other points still stand. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tryptaminev@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) If we put the perpetuators in charge of defining, what constitutes as a crime and what doesn't, there would be no crime anywhere and never. If a nations military or other organized fighters are conducting operations the terms and rules for war crimes should apply and the perpetuators and organizers should be held responsible. That goes for Hamas fighters and leaders as well as IDF soldiers and leaders. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gmtom@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yes, thats probably how it should be, but thats not how it actually is. Hence why the US doesnt sign conventions on war crimes either. and why we dont talk about terrorist groups like Al Queda as being war criminals. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yes, thats probably how it should be, but thats not how it actually is. Hence why the US doesnt sign conventions on war crimes either. and why we dont talk about terrorist groups like Al Queda as being war criminals. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] deegeese@sopuli.xyz -26 points 2 years ago State sponsor of terrorism victimized by terrorist attack. Yes it’s horrible, but partying on stolen land is reckless. permalink fedilink source parent