▲ 1155 ▼ Supply and demand (slrpnk.net) submitted 4 months ago by Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net [M] to c/memes@slrpnk.net 228 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Dadifer@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago (2 children) Batteries? Boil water? Anything? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 21 points 4 months ago (2 children) Use excess to boil water for steam turbines. Solved. Big oil has INSANE propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] piccolo@sh.itjust.works 30 points 4 months ago (1 child) I have played factorio so im an expert. Just boil billions of gallons of water and store the steam for as long as you need with zero loss of enegry. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago Bam permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 12 points 4 months ago (2 children) You just took the excess energy to generate more energy with it?!? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Wooki@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (1 child) Steam store in tank. Tank lose little-to-lot depend on how long. Use steam night when no sun. Or Move water to higher tank from lower tank. When needed pour high tank through generator to low tank. Repeat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago someone downvotes every sane storage suggestion in this thread. wish the chickenshit would argue their premise instead of just negging actual solutions that are working in real life. permalink fedilink source parent [–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 4 months ago No, the hot steam is for onsen. It's hot-tub baths, kinda. Very comfy, very recommendable. 10/10. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago (3 children) Batteries are usually to expensive to have standing by on this scale. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 months ago (1 child) Is it more expensive than excess production harming the grid or the economic impact of recurring blackouts? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) There has to be some solution in use today, since I as a consumer don't have recurring blackouts. I don't know what they are, but they are likely not chemical batteries, and they are likely cheaper than batteries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 1 point 4 months ago It's power generation that can be quickly ans easily ramped up and down on demand. Mostly nuclear and fossils. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SparroHawc@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago (1 child) There's been significant advances in super-cheap batteries that have lower power density, but excellent resilience, utilizing common materials. Those are ideal for solar storage where space isn't an issue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago yep. sodium based battery chemistry is fantastic and rolling out now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] shweddy@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (2 children) Something tells me they can "economy of scale" those bitches and make making massive battery bank warehouses cheap permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago Grid scale storage is actively being worked on. Chemical batteries, like rechargeable lithium ion batteries, are a big part of it. Sodium ion batteries and iron air batteries are coming up, as well. Somewhat related are rechargeable fuel cells and flow batteries, that similarly store chemical energy that can support two-way charge/discharge cycles. Gravity storage, like pumping water up into a reservoir and then using it to drive turbines on the way down, or elaborate elevator shaft type systems, can store some energy but require lots of land and material, or require very specific geographic features not commonly found. Kinetic energy storage, turning lots of heavy flywheels and then recapturing that momentum to produce electricity when needed, is also on the grid (and kinda mimics the rotational inertia of the turbines traditionally synced across the grid). Some other storage technologies include capacitors, pressurized gas containers, and thermal heat storage with molten salt that can be used to make steam to drive turbines on demand. But all of these solutions are difficult to scale up to the point where they make a significant difference in addressing the mismatch between supply and demand at different times of day. We gotta do all of it, and right now the most cost effective solution is chemical batteries, so that's been growing at an exponential rate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago* Like, there is a huge focus on inventing and implementing exactly this. I have seen many technical science/engineering articles about the different approaches to make it work. Because it would be amazingly useful. But the solution has generally not been found yet. Reality bites. Some stuff is just not possible to make economically. You can't just say "economics of scale" like it is a magic incantation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 21 points 4 months ago (2 children) Use excess to boil water for steam turbines. Solved. Big oil has INSANE propaganda. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] piccolo@sh.itjust.works 30 points 4 months ago (1 child) I have played factorio so im an expert. Just boil billions of gallons of water and store the steam for as long as you need with zero loss of enegry. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago Bam permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 12 points 4 months ago (2 children) You just took the excess energy to generate more energy with it?!? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Wooki@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (1 child) Steam store in tank. Tank lose little-to-lot depend on how long. Use steam night when no sun. Or Move water to higher tank from lower tank. When needed pour high tank through generator to low tank. Repeat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago someone downvotes every sane storage suggestion in this thread. wish the chickenshit would argue their premise instead of just negging actual solutions that are working in real life. permalink fedilink source parent [–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 4 months ago No, the hot steam is for onsen. It's hot-tub baths, kinda. Very comfy, very recommendable. 10/10. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] piccolo@sh.itjust.works 30 points 4 months ago (1 child) I have played factorio so im an expert. Just boil billions of gallons of water and store the steam for as long as you need with zero loss of enegry. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago Bam permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip 12 points 4 months ago (2 children) You just took the excess energy to generate more energy with it?!? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Wooki@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (1 child) Steam store in tank. Tank lose little-to-lot depend on how long. Use steam night when no sun. Or Move water to higher tank from lower tank. When needed pour high tank through generator to low tank. Repeat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago someone downvotes every sane storage suggestion in this thread. wish the chickenshit would argue their premise instead of just negging actual solutions that are working in real life. permalink fedilink source parent [–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 4 months ago No, the hot steam is for onsen. It's hot-tub baths, kinda. Very comfy, very recommendable. 10/10. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wooki@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (1 child) Steam store in tank. Tank lose little-to-lot depend on how long. Use steam night when no sun. Or Move water to higher tank from lower tank. When needed pour high tank through generator to low tank. Repeat. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago someone downvotes every sane storage suggestion in this thread. wish the chickenshit would argue their premise instead of just negging actual solutions that are working in real life. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago someone downvotes every sane storage suggestion in this thread. wish the chickenshit would argue their premise instead of just negging actual solutions that are working in real life. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 4 months ago No, the hot steam is for onsen. It's hot-tub baths, kinda. Very comfy, very recommendable. 10/10. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago (3 children) Batteries are usually to expensive to have standing by on this scale. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 months ago (1 child) Is it more expensive than excess production harming the grid or the economic impact of recurring blackouts? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) There has to be some solution in use today, since I as a consumer don't have recurring blackouts. I don't know what they are, but they are likely not chemical batteries, and they are likely cheaper than batteries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 1 point 4 months ago It's power generation that can be quickly ans easily ramped up and down on demand. Mostly nuclear and fossils. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SparroHawc@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago (1 child) There's been significant advances in super-cheap batteries that have lower power density, but excellent resilience, utilizing common materials. Those are ideal for solar storage where space isn't an issue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago yep. sodium based battery chemistry is fantastic and rolling out now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] shweddy@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (2 children) Something tells me they can "economy of scale" those bitches and make making massive battery bank warehouses cheap permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago Grid scale storage is actively being worked on. Chemical batteries, like rechargeable lithium ion batteries, are a big part of it. Sodium ion batteries and iron air batteries are coming up, as well. Somewhat related are rechargeable fuel cells and flow batteries, that similarly store chemical energy that can support two-way charge/discharge cycles. Gravity storage, like pumping water up into a reservoir and then using it to drive turbines on the way down, or elaborate elevator shaft type systems, can store some energy but require lots of land and material, or require very specific geographic features not commonly found. Kinetic energy storage, turning lots of heavy flywheels and then recapturing that momentum to produce electricity when needed, is also on the grid (and kinda mimics the rotational inertia of the turbines traditionally synced across the grid). Some other storage technologies include capacitors, pressurized gas containers, and thermal heat storage with molten salt that can be used to make steam to drive turbines on demand. But all of these solutions are difficult to scale up to the point where they make a significant difference in addressing the mismatch between supply and demand at different times of day. We gotta do all of it, and right now the most cost effective solution is chemical batteries, so that's been growing at an exponential rate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago* Like, there is a huge focus on inventing and implementing exactly this. I have seen many technical science/engineering articles about the different approaches to make it work. Because it would be amazingly useful. But the solution has generally not been found yet. Reality bites. Some stuff is just not possible to make economically. You can't just say "economics of scale" like it is a magic incantation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 points 4 months ago (1 child) Is it more expensive than excess production harming the grid or the economic impact of recurring blackouts? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) There has to be some solution in use today, since I as a consumer don't have recurring blackouts. I don't know what they are, but they are likely not chemical batteries, and they are likely cheaper than batteries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 1 point 4 months ago It's power generation that can be quickly ans easily ramped up and down on demand. Mostly nuclear and fossils. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago (1 child) There has to be some solution in use today, since I as a consumer don't have recurring blackouts. I don't know what they are, but they are likely not chemical batteries, and they are likely cheaper than batteries. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 1 point 4 months ago It's power generation that can be quickly ans easily ramped up and down on demand. Mostly nuclear and fossils. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 1 point 4 months ago It's power generation that can be quickly ans easily ramped up and down on demand. Mostly nuclear and fossils. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SparroHawc@lemmy.zip 2 points 4 months ago (1 child) There's been significant advances in super-cheap batteries that have lower power density, but excellent resilience, utilizing common materials. Those are ideal for solar storage where space isn't an issue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago yep. sodium based battery chemistry is fantastic and rolling out now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 2 points 4 months ago yep. sodium based battery chemistry is fantastic and rolling out now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] shweddy@lemmy.world 1 point 4 months ago (2 children) Something tells me they can "economy of scale" those bitches and make making massive battery bank warehouses cheap permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago Grid scale storage is actively being worked on. Chemical batteries, like rechargeable lithium ion batteries, are a big part of it. Sodium ion batteries and iron air batteries are coming up, as well. Somewhat related are rechargeable fuel cells and flow batteries, that similarly store chemical energy that can support two-way charge/discharge cycles. Gravity storage, like pumping water up into a reservoir and then using it to drive turbines on the way down, or elaborate elevator shaft type systems, can store some energy but require lots of land and material, or require very specific geographic features not commonly found. Kinetic energy storage, turning lots of heavy flywheels and then recapturing that momentum to produce electricity when needed, is also on the grid (and kinda mimics the rotational inertia of the turbines traditionally synced across the grid). Some other storage technologies include capacitors, pressurized gas containers, and thermal heat storage with molten salt that can be used to make steam to drive turbines on demand. But all of these solutions are difficult to scale up to the point where they make a significant difference in addressing the mismatch between supply and demand at different times of day. We gotta do all of it, and right now the most cost effective solution is chemical batteries, so that's been growing at an exponential rate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago* Like, there is a huge focus on inventing and implementing exactly this. I have seen many technical science/engineering articles about the different approaches to make it work. Because it would be amazingly useful. But the solution has generally not been found yet. Reality bites. Some stuff is just not possible to make economically. You can't just say "economics of scale" like it is a magic incantation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 3 points 4 months ago Grid scale storage is actively being worked on. Chemical batteries, like rechargeable lithium ion batteries, are a big part of it. Sodium ion batteries and iron air batteries are coming up, as well. Somewhat related are rechargeable fuel cells and flow batteries, that similarly store chemical energy that can support two-way charge/discharge cycles. Gravity storage, like pumping water up into a reservoir and then using it to drive turbines on the way down, or elaborate elevator shaft type systems, can store some energy but require lots of land and material, or require very specific geographic features not commonly found. Kinetic energy storage, turning lots of heavy flywheels and then recapturing that momentum to produce electricity when needed, is also on the grid (and kinda mimics the rotational inertia of the turbines traditionally synced across the grid). Some other storage technologies include capacitors, pressurized gas containers, and thermal heat storage with molten salt that can be used to make steam to drive turbines on demand. But all of these solutions are difficult to scale up to the point where they make a significant difference in addressing the mismatch between supply and demand at different times of day. We gotta do all of it, and right now the most cost effective solution is chemical batteries, so that's been growing at an exponential rate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 8oow3291d@feddit.dk 1 point 4 months ago* Like, there is a huge focus on inventing and implementing exactly this. I have seen many technical science/engineering articles about the different approaches to make it work. Because it would be amazingly useful. But the solution has generally not been found yet. Reality bites. Some stuff is just not possible to make economically. You can't just say "economics of scale" like it is a magic incantation. permalink fedilink source parent