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Dbzer0 votes to defederate from feddit.org (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) by [M] to c/meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
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Here's the thread: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/24345496

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[–] [S] 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 child)

I don't know the context in which IndustryStandard is replying. That was 5 months ago; my views on Israel have dramatically changed since then.

Gaza wouldn't be in the state it is now if the 7th of October massacres never occurred, if Hamas, which Israel fostered, never carried out the attacks. It'd still be greatly oppressed, but not a smoking rubble with a starving populace. The reason absolutely does matter since that's the excuse Israel uses to carry out their genocide, 'Oh, those civilians were totally just collateral! It's war! This happens despite us having the most sophisticated intelligence agency in the world'

Pointing out that Israel used the massacres as a proxy to carry out their extreme violence isn't defending Israel. It's not saying that Israel is justified, I'm not making any of those claims. Admittedly, I could've specified, so I'll do so now:

The 7th of October massacres were the triggering event that allowed Israel to pursue a level of destruction that wouldn't have been politically possible otherwise. Identifying that this is the moment the mask fell doesn't justify Israel's actions. The responsibility for the destruction lies with Israel, which is choosing to destroy Gaza. If these massacres never happened (which I need to stress, Israel's intelligence was well aware of these attacks and allowed them anyway), would Gaza be in the state it is now?

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    "Hamas started it" is never a good look. It ignore a lot of context which is precisely what the person meant when saying Israel has always been an obstacle to peace.

    More importantly, it's fixating on the wrong thing. The massacre x 10 000 that is genocide kind of overshadows the rest of it. Using who "started" it as an argument just comes off as trying to justify it.

    Like there's a mountain of corps and half of them are children.

    Here's the comment link: https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20723627

    It's really just that. Someone accused you of taking Israel's side and you defended yourself by saying "Hamas did it first".

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I never said Hamas started it. The conflict between Palestine and Israel has been going on for decades. I'm saying that Hamas's actions on the 7th of October gave Israel the excuse it was looking for to carry out what's happening now.

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  • [–] -1 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Your reaction to being told Israel has always been an obstacle to peace was pointing that out. It comes out of nowhere, the clarification only serves to pivot the blame.

    You are technically right. The problem is, so is everyone else in that argument but your technically right comes off as defending Israel.

    Fact is you would never start nitpicking about any other genocide and would ban someone for making the same kind of arguments about China.

    I'm going to let it go because I'm not here to harass you but I don't think your views have changed much.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    it isn't nitpicking, Israel is doing a genocide, I don't doubt that now. If you take 'Would Israel have the ability to perform it to this scale without using the 7th of October massacres as a reason?' as defending then there's nothing I can say or do to convince you otherwise.

    You don't even know what my views are

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    You combed back 5 months into their history to find this..? That's ..weird to say the least.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    No. I just had it saved because it struck me as clear cut Israel propaganda at the time. You can see the little bookmark icon being selected.

    It's easier to challenge the more subtle stuff if I can go back and point to a clearly pro-Israel comment, so I make a habit of saving them.

    Fun fact: I'm fairly certain I actually defended goat in that thread before he made that comment.

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