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Xi Jinping vows to reunify China and Taiwan in New Year’s Eve speech (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
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Thoughts?

Is this imperialism by China, a country which is supposed to be left-wing? Leftists are normally anti-imperialism. Wouldn't it be better to let Taiwan democratically decide whether they want to be part of China or not?

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[–] 57 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Invading Taiwan without damaging the things that make it valuable seems tough.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    They don't care about damaging things now.

    Almost all of TSMC's output is now powering US' Stargate AI project. They also have their own fabs, they have equivalent to TSMC fabs (from stolen TSMC research) in larger numbers - the only reason we don't see it flooding the market here in the west is that TSMC got injunctions against all the Chinese fabs selling 7nm and smaller chips.

    If TSMC is gone and Intel+Samsung can't keep up, then those injunctions are going to disappear pretty quickly to keep the economy rolling.

    TSMC is no longer a card Taiwan holds, largely due to corporate greed.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    The latest info we have says they don't have the equivalent high end chip prod yet but they're closing in. What you're describing would likely be the reality within several years. That said I think it's not in China's interest to take Taiwan by force since they'd have to live with it. It'll also do enormous damage to their soft power.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I think China does fervently wish that they can just "close in" to high end chip fabrication, but it's not that easy. We'll see, though.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    For sure. It's gonna be bad for TSMC but I'm cautiously optimistic for its effect on us regular non-US peasants. Especially given the shortages created by the AI bubble. Should lower the cost of compute.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    TSMC was never a card. China has been wanting Taiwan since before TSMC exists. Taiwan is in a strategic geographic location that makes it difficult to project its navy. It's the same reason the US controls Hawaii, Midway, Guam, and many other seemingly useless pacific islands in the middle of nowhere.

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  • [+] -33 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Famously what happened during German unification

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Except that was a peaceful process, not an invasion/annexation. Because part of Taiwan’s strategic defense policy is “we will melt our chip fabs to slag if the PRC invades”. Thus, they hold a gun to the head of pretty much all of the most advanced chip fabrication in the world, which most of the rest of the world has a vested interest in keeping working.

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  • [+] -30 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Except that was a peaceful process, not an invasion/annexation

    The only invasion I'm seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.

    they hold a gun to the head of pretty much all of the most advanced chip fabrication in the world

    That's been the American line for going on ten years. But the real gun has always been the Pacific Fleet, threatening to repeat the crimes of Vietnam on Chinese civilians, much like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and now Venezuela and Nigeria.

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  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The only invasion I’m seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.

    Saying this on the same day that Chinese warships encircled Taiwan.

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  • [+] -24 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Guy who has never seen a world map

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Wtf are you talking about? Imperialist China just finished encircling Taiwan in a "defense exercise"

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  • [+] -8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, China should definitely subjugate Taiwan to fend off those Americans who have no intention of attacking China and who have benefitted from trillions of dollars of trade from the US.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    China should definitely subjugate Taiwan

    Only you guys seem to think this.

    You're obsessed with global conquest and you think you're in a race with China to do it.

    who have benefitted from trillions of dollars of trade from the US.

    Have they? Why is Taiwanese standard of living so low?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Only you guys seem to think this.

    China's overall end-goal is specifically to annex Taiwan. Taiwanese people do not want this. What would you call this?

    Have they? Why is Taiwanese standard of living so low?

    Is it? Based on what? What data are you referring to?

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    China’s overall end-goal is specifically to annex Taiwan. Taiwanese people do not want this.

    China's overall end goal is to build a prosperous nation, safe from future re-colonization.

    Taiwanese people are happy to trade with, travel between, and live amicable with their Chinese peers. And one day, their position on annexation may change. That's the project Beijing leadership is working towards.

    Americans are trying to turn Taiwan into a forward operation base for regime change. And that's what leads to these endless naval patrol pissing contests and US fear mongering campaigns aimed at Taiwanese expats.

    What data are you referring to?

    Here's an excellent write-up

    in Taiwan, the average starting salary for a university graduate is around 33,713 New Taiwan dollars (about US$1,100), and even a department manager at a major corporation earns only about US$2,100.

    Meanwhile, housing prices in Taipei are comparable to those in Seoul—and in some areas, they even surpass Seocho, the most expensive district in the Korean capital. Until recently, people could endure thanks to relatively low living costs. But after COVID-19, things changed: not only was home ownership already out of reach, but inflation has driven everyday expenses sharply higher.

    Nothing illustrates the poverty of Taiwan’s youth more clearly than the phenomenon of the taofang. A taofang is essentially an apartment divided into multiple tiny units, often with illegal extensions that stick out like container boxes to maximize floor space. These cramped rooms, barely large enough to lie down in, rent for $290 to $360 a month in Taipei.

    If you know Taiwanese Americans, this isn't a secret. Nobody wants to go back to the island and earn a tiny fraction of their American salaries under a ruinously expensive living standard.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Do you imagine Taiwanese LGBT people want to live under CCP rule?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    More than the KMT or TPP certainly. Taiwan only legalized same sex couples in 2019, after repeated populist opposition campaigns and defiance of court orders.

    But, more pressing, do you think homeless LGBTQ people want to live under a government that denies them rights to the barest essentials of survival?

    Social conservative politics dominates the Pacific Rim. It isn't unique to any single country. Economic progressivism is where you find the sharpest divide.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You understand Taiwan is by far more liberal on LGBT rights than China, right? When did China legalise same-sex marriage? Or any of the rights granted to LGBT people in China?

    Do you think LGBT people in Sweden or Canada would prefer the social and legal situation of LGBT rights and expression in China as compared to their countries?

    Also, where is your data that homelessness is more prominent in China than Taiwan?

    Moreover, do you think journalists, activists in Taiwan, etc want to live under a one-party state where all dissent against the CCP is curated?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You understand Taiwan is by far more liberal on LGBT rights than China, right?

    They've had a liberal turn with the DDP. That's coming to an end. The '24 election introduced a reactionary majority in Parliament.

    Taiwan's Conservatives are in ascendence, and the island is taking a reactionary turn.

    Also, where is your data that homelessness is more prominent in China than Taiwan?

    I've already been linking you sources and you've been ignoring them.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    What legislation is planned that will somehow roll back LGBT rights in Taiwan to be equivalent to the PRC?

    Your source did not compare homelessness and poverty rates in China as compared to Taiwan.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Where is your evidence that Americans are trying to use Taiwan as a base for regime change? How would this even work?

    And your analysis on Taiwans housing prices and rent could be literally any major city in any major western country on earth. It does not demonstrate widespread poverty across Taiwan.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Where is your evidence that Americans are trying to use Taiwan as a base for regime change?

    A century of US foreign policy aimed at rival governments, combined with stated positions within US think tanks.

    And your analysis on Taiwans housing prices and rent could be literally any major city in any major western country on earth

    Crazy how free market housing prices just do that, huh? Almost as though it's a consequence of their public policies.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Sorry, again, you unironically think that the USA is going to attack China? A nuclear power with over double the USAs population?

    The point here is that you aren't even comparing it to China. What are the metrics and standards of living in Taiwan as compared to China?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Sorry, again, you unironically think that the USA is going to attack China? A nuclear power with over double the USAs population?

    We've been building up the Pacific Fleet since the Bush 43 administration. War with China was the plan for PNAC prior to 9/11. And the Trump admin is flush with China Hawks.

    What are the metrics and standards of living in Taiwan as compared to China?

    PPP is a great place to start. Taiwanese cost of living has been climbing since Trump 1 while China has kept itself stable.

    Basics - food, housing, transportation, education, health care - that Taiwan domestic policies privatized during the boom years have come back to eat their lunch in the lean years. Flat wages, rising debt, you do the math.

    You see the same problems across the Pacific Rim capitalist colony states. Everyone from Japan to India has been pinched by supply chain failures and venture capital excess. Taiwan's not unique in this regard (honestly doing a lot better than most of their peers). But the check always comes due.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    We’ve been building up the Pacific Fleet since the Bush 43 administration. War with China was the plan for PNAC prior to 9/11. And the Trump admin is flush with China Hawks.

    Okay, so? You do realise that China has changed a lot since then. Again: This is a nuclear power with over double the USAs population. What exactly do you imagine the war goals here are?

    PPP is a great place to start. Taiwanese cost of living has been climbing since Trump 1 while China has kept itself stable.

    Can I see your data points here?

    Basics - food, housing, transportation, education, health care - that Taiwan domestic policies privatized during the boom years have come back to eat their lunch in the lean years. Flat wages, rising debt, you do the math.

    Still no data points.

    You see the same problems across the Pacific Rim capitalist colony states. Everyone from Japan to India has been pinched by supply chain failures and venture capital excess. Taiwan’s not unique in this regard (honestly doing a lot better than most of their peers). But the check always comes due.

    Even if this is true, why would the Taiwanese want to become absorbed into a one-party state?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The only invasion I'm seeing is US Navy vessels encircling the island and threatening their economy.

    I must be going colorblind because those ships are flying a very red American flag...

    repeat the crimes of Vietnam on Chinese civilians, much like they did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and now Venezuela and Nigeria

    Lol wtf? Unless you really bought dubya's WMD bullshit, one of these countries is not like the others... I really doubt that any Chinese civilian on Chinese soil is going to get so much as a dirty look from any US armed forces...

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I must be going colorblind because those ships are flying a very red American flag…

    You're spitting distance from the coast of Fujain. I gotta wonder why you'd expect to see an American warship on the Chinese coastline.

    Unless...

    Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruisers USS Antietam (CG 54) and USS Chancellorsville (CG 62) are conducting a routine Taiwan Strait transit August 28 (local time) through waters where high seas freedoms of navigation and overflight apply in accordance with international law.

    Crazy how it's international waters when an American warship is in them.

    I really doubt that any Chinese civilian on Chinese soil is going to get so much as a dirty look from any US armed forces…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_espionage_in_China

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Crazy how it's international waters when an American warship is in them.

    Never said shit about it being international waters or claimed the US Navy was never there, we were talking about encircling Taiwan which the PRC literally just did. I hope you have the same decorum about US ships totally not practicing invasions of Mexico (😉). It's right over the border after all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_espionage_in_China

    Come on champ, you can do better than that. We're talking about big scary warships and military bases and all you can link me is some run of the mill espionage shit? And it's on Wikipedia no less, I'm gonna need to revoke your tankie card.

    You're name dropping Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam, I need a chance of a military occupation or some Hueys blaring CCR. Give me a real military threat that requires a show of force on this puny island. If flimsy proxy wars counted the USA would be the #1 most righteous belligerent in every conflict from 1945 onward with how much the KGB/GRU tickled them.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    we were talking about encircling Taiwan which the PRC

    How do Chinese ships depart from Fujain without encircling Taiwan? Literally look at your own maps. They're neighbors.

    Might as well declare Australia is encircling New Zealand.

    Are these international waters or aren't they? Do ships have right of passage or don't they? Or is it your belief that Taiwanese waters are American territory?

    Come on champ, you can do better than that.

    You want to play at denialism then scream about foreign aggression. No wonder nobody takes your foreign policy seriously anymore

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    How do Chinese ships depart from Fujain without encircling Taiwan?

    You are an absolute clown:

    China's Eastern Theatre Command conducted 10 hours of live-fire exercises, launching rockets into waters to the north and south of [Taiwan] [...] naval and air force units also simulated strikes on maritime and aerial targets and carried out anti-submarine drills around the island, while state media released images touting Beijing's technological and military superiority [...] China's military said on Monday that simulating a blockade of Taiwan's deep-water Port of Keelung to the island's north and Kaohsiung to Taiwan's south, its largest port city, was central to the drills.

    I can read you, verbatim, CCP press releases saying they are doing this to intimidate Taiwan ("[they will] smash their heads bloody against the iron walls of the Chinese People's Liberation Army") and you pretend they're just out for a sight seeing cruise. Absolutely incredible levels of delusion. Xi should mail you some kind of medal for this...

    You want to play at denialism then scream about foreign aggression.

    Lmfao what did I deny?? I didn't deny anything in any comment! I'm the one drawing the obvious parallels to US aggression! You're just pulling from your stock response bag because your argument is completely hollow.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You are an absolute clown

    The US and Taiwan signed a two-year specialized training program for Taiwan’s navy, the Ministry of National Defense said today, in an unexpected announcement confirming US training.

    The US has a history of stationing military instructors and special ops teams in Taiwan to quietly assist with training, but details have been classified.

    On Jan. 2, the ministry’s military delegation to the US signed an agreement with the American Institute in Taiwan, an announcement from the ministry showed.

    We can do this all day. China drilling to repel a US assault is about as threatening as the US running drills out of Hawaii.

    Weird that the US is running drills significantly farther East.

    I can read you, verbatim, CCP press releases saying they are doing this to intimidate Taiwan

    You can read US agitprop that selectively quotes and mistranslates statements. Or you can just throw up generic statements with a flashlight under your chin.

    Lmfao what did I deny??

    Jesus, it's like Charlie Kirk never died with this level of bullshit

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Nice, glad to see you admitting defeat. Fucking quotes from the CCP are agitprop? Give me a fucking break. Go ahead and translate those for me; you're clearly a bastion of free and rational thinking. Oh wait, you can't read anything but English and are arbitrarily choosing to discard sources that don't fit your bias? Anything that runs counter to your red fanfic is a lie or a conspiracy.

    The sheer lack of basic logic is incredible. You think that the USA is sneaking in and forcing Taiwan to prepare for PRC military action? Like they've got a gun to these poor Taiwanese soldiers forcing them to do push ups? The people of Taiwan want them there to maintain the status quo against PRC annexation. The polls say that in no uncertain terms (as I've covered in other comments). Maybe they wouldn't be so willing to jump at the USA's aid if they didn't have fucking PRC rockets landing all around them.

    Conversely, if the PRC held domain over Taiwan then they wouldn't allow this interference. But they clearly don't if Taiwan is acting independently to protect its own sovereignty. If you ignore reality by starting with "PRC owns Taiwan" then no shit your circular logic will justify any PRC action. This is insane.

    "Stop training to defend against a PRC invasion invade mainland China [with your 150k troops 😂] or we'll invade you" is a lunatic stance when you're preaching peaceful reunification. Is this tiny island with 1% of your population a military threat? Or is the superpower with ICBM nukes the problem? Because if so, bullying [sorry "protecting"] Taiwan does literally nothing but feed plausible excuses to the USA hegemony machine. Ignore Taiwan and go run those drills off of Hawaii if you're dying to be a tough guy. But if they're not doing that then they must have a different plan in mind 🤔...

    Now go ahead, it's your turn to pick some minor point in this dead simple logic and try to counter it by citing an anonymous blog post or something...

    Also I'm still waiting for you to tell me what I denied, I don't think eye rolling is a real answer 🙄

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Nice, glad to see you admitting defeat.

    The people of Taiwan want them there to maintain the status quo against PRC annexation.

    https://x.com/MariaCorinaYA/status/1976642376119549990

    This recognition of the struggle of all Venezuelans Taiwanese is a boost to conclude our task: to conquer Freedom.

    We are on the threshold of victory and today, more than ever, we count on President Trump, the people of the United States, the peoples of Latin America East Asia, and the democratic nations of the world as our principal allies to achieve Freedom and democracy.

    I dedicate this prize to the suffering people of Venezuela Taiwan and to President Trump for his decisive support of our cause!

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Lol good job just equating two things as if it's a gotcha. Damn, America really do be doing shitty things, therefore by association... Taiwan bad? The PRC must be the evil incarnate with all these decades keeping USA as their top trade partner. 'Merica bad, you really got me.

    And btw, love dodging the entire argument with a tangential tweet and NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE. Come on, give me a prolewiki link or something; tell me why every Taiwan public opinion poll is actually fake or, if they're real, why the Taiwanese public is wrong and papa CCP needs to spank them. I need a good laugh! And tell me more about denialism ☕

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You think the USA is going to start an aggressive boots-on-ground assault on China?

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Wouldn't be the first time

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