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The right can’t decide if it's okay to hate Jews (www.motherjones.com)
submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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note - this article isn't a defense of Israel, don't worry

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[–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

Wrong. Hasan is an opportunist that is so blinded on a single issue he says antisemitic things without realizing the consequences of what he is saying, and as he is increasingly radicalized on the Gaza issue (which is justified radicalization) he is losing the plot on being able to police himself, and is sliding headlong into rhetoric that has extremists applauding. He has done more to alienate Jewish allies who actually have voices and stakes in getting Bibi out of power by allowing his community to impose purity tests on Jews for their reaction to everything following October 7, and it's directly strengthened Bibi's support by turning allies into enemies. He has promoted us-vs-them rhetoric on IDF members with no nuance about the fact that they have mandatory conscription, so according to his rhetoric, it's impossible for any Israeli to be an ally against the people in power creating the genocide. But, in my opinion, there's this circle-jerk of outrage about Gaza that is so profitable to that community that the knee-jerk reaction to terms like "Israel", "IDF", "Zionist" etc gets views and donations and you can just spout things for clips without any nuance to literally watch money roll in. If you want the genocide to stop, Bibi has to get out of power, and you do that by creating allies out of the people that can actually vote against him and his regime, not hand-waving it away when they say "hey we're getting freaked out by what sounds to us like racism."

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Hasan is an opportunist that is so blinded on a single issue he says antisemitic things without realizing the consequences of what he is saying

    What are these antisemitic things Hasan has said specifically?

    Please source links to these allegations if you are going to make them.

    He has done more to alienate Jewish allies who actually have voices and stakes in getting Bibi out of power by allowing his community to impose purity tests on Jews for their reaction to everything following October 7,

    What mechanism is Hasan and his community imposing with? Are you alleging something internal to their community or alleging that Hasan and his community have some external power they are nefariously using to impose with?

    sigh

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Took me 6 seconds https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1msloso/hasan_piker_says_that_hila_klein_is_a_valid/

    Edit: I don't know where you're from, but in a country with mandatory service, this rhetoric is straight up dangerous. To take a teenager and say they are forced to go into the army or go to jail...they're all gonna go and do it, even if they don't like the government, don't support them, and are dragging their feet the whole time. If this rhetoric is allowed to continue, you have shunned any possible allies that actually have power to overturn the Israeli government.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Do you think that is good evidence?

    Hasan is a twitch streamer, Israel and the IDF can stop the genocide any time because they are the ones doing it, all Hasan can do is make videos. Who really has the power here?

    Edit One further point, your argument is that Hasan's perspective isn't helpful for a certain political outcome in a COUNTRY called ISRAEL. That is DIFFERENT than judaism. You are still conflating, even in your framing of this, the idea of judaism and Israel. It is not inherently antisemitic to believe in political tactics that you don't think will work for an outcome in a specific NATION, even if your argument was correct it fails at a basic level to identify something genuinely antisemitic in Hasan Piker because there isn't.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Welp, Hasan said things would be the same in Gaza under Harris or Trump. Trump won, the military is invading US cities and black bagging citizens, the stock market is higher than ever for the hyper capitalists and people can barely afford to survive. Bibis approval is higher than ever. https://www.jns.org/netanyahus-approval-ratings-at-all-time-high-poll/

    I think you should consider if his rhetoric has actually helped or hurt the principles he claims to support. Hasan repeatedly said Kamala would be no better than Trump (on Gaza, which he painted as the only issue) and he directly moved the needle on low turnout from the left.

    BTW, I am saying that the only power we have to remove Bibi is by appealing to opposition in his own country, that's why I am talking about rhetoric he is eschewing, in a clip where he is talking about all Israelis as IDF members, about Israel, not all Jews. Hasan has many viewpoints that alienate Jews and many that alienate Israelis, where those communities overlap and where they don't. Above is a clip where he alienates Israelis that would oppose Bibi, here is one where he is purity testing Jews worldwide: https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/1k8k8ul/hasan_says_anyone_expressing_any_bit_of_positive/

    BTW, that clip is from the H3 subreddit, which is likely a kneejerk dismissal. You can like Hasan, I don't care. I like Ethan a lot. I also politically agree with Hasan a lot. Ethan is a chaos gremlin and I disagree with how much he accuses people of being pedophiles and uses certain terms, but I like his silly surrealist nonsense and his non-political stuff. People who like Hasan and his orbiters seem to be incapable, in my experience, with acknowledging criticism of them, which is dangerous, it's when discussion turns to dogma. The whole discussion here is that a lot of people, including both American and Israeli Jews, feel there is a rise in antisemitism and are being silenced, which is alienating allies, and if you can't acknowledge that, maybe consider if you are becoming mindlessly dogmatic.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    None of this is actually relevant to my question and it concerns me that you don't seem to be able to grasp that.

    Where has Hasan Piker been antisemitic? Where is your proof? <- That was the question if you forgot

    NOTE, THE QUESTION IS NOT "WHEN HAS HASAN CRITICIZED ISRAEL?".

    It seems like you want to discuss your feelings here more than actually provide evidence for your accusation of someone harboring bigotry towards jewish people and honestly I don't give a shit about your feelings in this established context.

    If you are going to accuse someone of being antisemitic, publicly and in concert with toxic voices, than make sure you are ready to back up your words before you start wasting people's time.

    Stop trying to make this a conversation about Israeli politics, I am talking about antisemitism not what the best political strategy there is to take according to internal Israel politics for ending the Genocide Of Palestinians.

    (on Gaza, which he painted as the only issue)

    Right, Hasan Piker does hours of political streaming everyday, goes on different politics platforms and discusses issues and spends his entire time while doing so ONLY talking about Gaza. This is a lazy attack and it simply doesn't hold up to any scrutiny at all.

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I think you are being deliberately obtuse, the rhetoric I shared is antisemitism, but since you have adopted a narrow definition for what antisemitism is derived from who knows where, rather than listening to Jewish voices, this is going to just have to remain an impass. Thought experiment, imagine going up to a black person and telling them that their perception of American police racism against black people is made up and they have to provide examples, all of which are dismissed as being justified or not counting. I understand there is nuance in protesting things the Israeli government is doing, and I acknowledge that they certainly leverage antisemitism as a victim shield.... That doesn't apply to average Jews, or many Israelis, but the rhetoric has no acknowledgement for that. If those links above can't provoke a "ok, I see it, maybe he could do a better job of making sure average American Jews and Israelis are carved out" response, then we will never see eye to eye, and here we are arguing when we probably agree 99% of the time. Again, making enemies out of allies.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    I understand there is nuance in protesting things the Israeli government is doing, and I acknowledge that they certainly leverage antisemitism as a victim shield....

    That doesn't apply to average Jews, or many Israelis

    It applies to all of Israel, Israel is a genocidal Apartheid state. The evidence is horrifyingly overwhelming for this fact, even if you just go off of what Israeli officials publicly say on record.

    There are gradations of complicity, but make no mistake the Palestinian Genocide is a stain on Israel, all of it.

    If you live in Israel and you aren't yourself the target of genocide, you are complicit to some degree. Sorry, that is how responsibility works...

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  • [–] -2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    And there it is, you say all citizens, even those that object to the government, are fair to hold responsible for the actions of the government. YOU lumped them all together. Unless this is a special carve out for Jews, I hope you apply that to all nations. The Uhygurs being genocided in China? Fair to hold accountable for China's hostilities in the south China sea. American socialist protestor who hates Trump? Valid military target for the attacks off the coast of south america. Average starving Palestenian? Directly responsible for the murder of civilians on Oct 7. I am obviously being absurd... You have been programmed to treat all Israelis as a monolithic thing, AND THAT IS ANTISEMITISM.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    You have been programmed to treat all Israelis as a monolithic thing, AND THAT IS ANTISEMITISM.

    1. I said all Israelis not a target of Genocide are to some gradational degree complicit in the Palestinian Genocide. This is not the same thing as seeing Israelis as a monolithic thing in any broader sense.

    2. Israel is not the same concept as judaism, one is a country the other a religion, so no what you accuse me of saying would be a toxic generalization of a nation's populace and conflation of it with a nation's government, not antisemitism, neither of which I am doing for the record.

    How many damn times does someone have to make point 2 to you before you stop talking and listen?

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