▲ 604 ▼ Jack Dorsey Releases Vine Reboot Where AI Content Is Banned (futurism.com) submitted 9 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world 136 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 255 points 9 months ago (5 children) Enforcing that ban is going to be difficult. permalink fedilink source hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] scytale@piefed.zip 161 points 9 months ago (4 children) They’re gonna use AI to detect the use of AI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 95 points 9 months ago (3 children) Not if I use AI to hide my use of AI first! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 39 points 9 months ago (3 children) They are going to implement an AI detector detector detector. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 26 points 9 months ago (1 child) It’s detectors all the way down. But of course, as a tortoise, you would know that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Did I seduce you a lot with my hard, polished shell? You can speak freely, nobody will ever know! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent [–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago But then they'll implement an AI detector detector deflector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) Trace busta busta? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago This one permalink fedilink source parent [–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 12 points 9 months ago Fun fact, this loop is kinda how one of the generative ML algorithms works. This algorithm is called Generative Adversarial Networks or GAN. You have a so-called Generator neural network G that generates something (usually images) from random noise and a Discriminator neural network D that can take images (or whatever you're generating) as input and outputs whether this is real or fake (not actually in a binary way, but as a continuous value). D is trained on images from G, which should be classified as fake, and real images from a dataset that should be classified as real. G is trained to generate images from random noise vectors that fool D into thinking they're real. D is, like most neural networks, essentially just a mathematical function so you can just compute how to adjust the generated image to make it appear more real using derivatives. In the perfect case these 2 networks battle until they reach peak performance. In practice you usually need to do some extra shit to prevent the whole situation from crashing and burning. What often happens, for instance, is that D becomes so good that it doesn't provide any useful feedback anymore. It sees the generated images as 100% fake, meaning there's no longer an obvious way to alter the generated image to make it seem more real. Sorry for the infodump :3 permalink fedilink source parent [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago Spoken like a true AI. permalink fedilink source parent [–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 14 points 9 months ago (1 child) Well the AI-based AI detector isn't actively making creative people's work disappear into a sea of gen-AI "art" at least. There's good and bad use cases for AI, I consider this a better use case than generating art. Now the question is whether or not it's feasible to detect AI this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago Indeed. I have an Immich instance running on my home server that backs up my and my wife's photos. It's like an open source Google Photos. One of its features is an local AI model that recognises faces and tags names on them, as well as doing stuff like recognising when a picture is of a landscape, food, etc. Likewise, Firefox has a really good offline translation feature that runs locally and is open source. AI doesn't have to be bad. Big tech and venture capital is just choosing to make it so. permalink fedilink source parent [–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago* Seems that way: permalink fedilink source parent [–] Krompus@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Ouroboros permalink fedilink source parent [–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 9 months ago (1 child) Just the threat of being able to summarily remove AI content and hand out account discipline will cut down drastically on AI and practically eliminate the really low effort 'slop', it's not perfect but it's damn useful. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) It's also going to make it really easy to take down the content you don't like, just accuse it of being AI and watch the witch hunting roll in. I've seen plenty of examples of traditional artists getting accused of using AI in other forums, I don't imagine this will be any different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) People already mass report to abuse existing AI moderation tools. It's already starting to be accounted for and I can't imagine it so much as slowing down implementing an anti AI rule if I'm being honest. permalink fedilink source parent [+] oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago The ban doesn't need a 100% perfect AI screening protocol to be a success. Just the fact that AI is banned might appeal to a wide demographic. If the ban is actually enforced, even in just 25% of the most blatant cases, it might be just the push a new platform needs to take off. permalink fedilink source parent [–] edryd@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Just because something might be hard means we should give up before even trying? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rothe@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago Of course not, but I don't think anybody suggested that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) Only if we let it be. There's no technical reason why the origin of a video couldn't have a signature generated by the capture device, or legally requiring AI models to do the same for any content they generate. Anything without an origin sticker is assumed to be garbage by default. Obviously there would need to be some way to make captures either anonymous or not at the user's choice, and nation states can evade these things with sufficient effort like they always do, but we could cut a lot of slop out by doing some simple stuff like that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] pennomi@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] kinsnik@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago while a phone signing a video to show that it was captured with the camera is possible, it will be easy too to fake the signature. all it would take would be a hacked device to steal the private key. and even if apple/google/samsung have perfectly secure systems to sign the origin of the video, there would be ton of cheaper phones that would likely won't. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] scytale@piefed.zip 161 points 9 months ago (4 children) They’re gonna use AI to detect the use of AI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 95 points 9 months ago (3 children) Not if I use AI to hide my use of AI first! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 39 points 9 months ago (3 children) They are going to implement an AI detector detector detector. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 26 points 9 months ago (1 child) It’s detectors all the way down. But of course, as a tortoise, you would know that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Did I seduce you a lot with my hard, polished shell? You can speak freely, nobody will ever know! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent [–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago But then they'll implement an AI detector detector deflector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) Trace busta busta? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago This one permalink fedilink source parent [–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 12 points 9 months ago Fun fact, this loop is kinda how one of the generative ML algorithms works. This algorithm is called Generative Adversarial Networks or GAN. You have a so-called Generator neural network G that generates something (usually images) from random noise and a Discriminator neural network D that can take images (or whatever you're generating) as input and outputs whether this is real or fake (not actually in a binary way, but as a continuous value). D is trained on images from G, which should be classified as fake, and real images from a dataset that should be classified as real. G is trained to generate images from random noise vectors that fool D into thinking they're real. D is, like most neural networks, essentially just a mathematical function so you can just compute how to adjust the generated image to make it appear more real using derivatives. In the perfect case these 2 networks battle until they reach peak performance. In practice you usually need to do some extra shit to prevent the whole situation from crashing and burning. What often happens, for instance, is that D becomes so good that it doesn't provide any useful feedback anymore. It sees the generated images as 100% fake, meaning there's no longer an obvious way to alter the generated image to make it seem more real. Sorry for the infodump :3 permalink fedilink source parent [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago Spoken like a true AI. permalink fedilink source parent [–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 14 points 9 months ago (1 child) Well the AI-based AI detector isn't actively making creative people's work disappear into a sea of gen-AI "art" at least. There's good and bad use cases for AI, I consider this a better use case than generating art. Now the question is whether or not it's feasible to detect AI this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago Indeed. I have an Immich instance running on my home server that backs up my and my wife's photos. It's like an open source Google Photos. One of its features is an local AI model that recognises faces and tags names on them, as well as doing stuff like recognising when a picture is of a landscape, food, etc. Likewise, Firefox has a really good offline translation feature that runs locally and is open source. AI doesn't have to be bad. Big tech and venture capital is just choosing to make it so. permalink fedilink source parent [–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago* Seems that way: permalink fedilink source parent [–] Krompus@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago Ouroboros permalink fedilink source parent
[–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 95 points 9 months ago (3 children) Not if I use AI to hide my use of AI first! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 39 points 9 months ago (3 children) They are going to implement an AI detector detector detector. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 26 points 9 months ago (1 child) It’s detectors all the way down. But of course, as a tortoise, you would know that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Did I seduce you a lot with my hard, polished shell? You can speak freely, nobody will ever know! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent [–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago But then they'll implement an AI detector detector deflector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) Trace busta busta? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago This one permalink fedilink source parent [–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 12 points 9 months ago Fun fact, this loop is kinda how one of the generative ML algorithms works. This algorithm is called Generative Adversarial Networks or GAN. You have a so-called Generator neural network G that generates something (usually images) from random noise and a Discriminator neural network D that can take images (or whatever you're generating) as input and outputs whether this is real or fake (not actually in a binary way, but as a continuous value). D is trained on images from G, which should be classified as fake, and real images from a dataset that should be classified as real. G is trained to generate images from random noise vectors that fool D into thinking they're real. D is, like most neural networks, essentially just a mathematical function so you can just compute how to adjust the generated image to make it appear more real using derivatives. In the perfect case these 2 networks battle until they reach peak performance. In practice you usually need to do some extra shit to prevent the whole situation from crashing and burning. What often happens, for instance, is that D becomes so good that it doesn't provide any useful feedback anymore. It sees the generated images as 100% fake, meaning there's no longer an obvious way to alter the generated image to make it seem more real. Sorry for the infodump :3 permalink fedilink source parent [–] danc4498@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago Spoken like a true AI. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 39 points 9 months ago (3 children) They are going to implement an AI detector detector detector. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 26 points 9 months ago (1 child) It’s detectors all the way down. But of course, as a tortoise, you would know that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Did I seduce you a lot with my hard, polished shell? You can speak freely, nobody will ever know! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent [–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago But then they'll implement an AI detector detector deflector. permalink fedilink source parent [–] urandom@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) Trace busta busta? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago This one permalink fedilink source parent
[–] henfredemars@lemdro.id 26 points 9 months ago (1 child) It’s detectors all the way down. But of course, as a tortoise, you would know that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Did I seduce you a lot with my hard, polished shell? You can speak freely, nobody will ever know! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) Did I seduce you a lot with my hard, polished shell? You can speak freely, nobody will ever know! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 12 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it was your intense, Gowron-like stare that truly drilled into my heart. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 11 points 9 months ago Glory to seduction! Glory to the empire! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 3 points 9 months ago But then they'll implement an AI detector detector deflector. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] urandom@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) Trace busta busta? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 points 9 months ago This one permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 12 points 9 months ago Fun fact, this loop is kinda how one of the generative ML algorithms works. This algorithm is called Generative Adversarial Networks or GAN. You have a so-called Generator neural network G that generates something (usually images) from random noise and a Discriminator neural network D that can take images (or whatever you're generating) as input and outputs whether this is real or fake (not actually in a binary way, but as a continuous value). D is trained on images from G, which should be classified as fake, and real images from a dataset that should be classified as real. G is trained to generate images from random noise vectors that fool D into thinking they're real. D is, like most neural networks, essentially just a mathematical function so you can just compute how to adjust the generated image to make it appear more real using derivatives. In the perfect case these 2 networks battle until they reach peak performance. In practice you usually need to do some extra shit to prevent the whole situation from crashing and burning. What often happens, for instance, is that D becomes so good that it doesn't provide any useful feedback anymore. It sees the generated images as 100% fake, meaning there's no longer an obvious way to alter the generated image to make it seem more real. Sorry for the infodump :3 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago Spoken like a true AI. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 14 points 9 months ago (1 child) Well the AI-based AI detector isn't actively making creative people's work disappear into a sea of gen-AI "art" at least. There's good and bad use cases for AI, I consider this a better use case than generating art. Now the question is whether or not it's feasible to detect AI this way. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago Indeed. I have an Immich instance running on my home server that backs up my and my wife's photos. It's like an open source Google Photos. One of its features is an local AI model that recognises faces and tags names on them, as well as doing stuff like recognising when a picture is of a landscape, food, etc. Likewise, Firefox has a really good offline translation feature that runs locally and is open source. AI doesn't have to be bad. Big tech and venture capital is just choosing to make it so. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 points 9 months ago Indeed. I have an Immich instance running on my home server that backs up my and my wife's photos. It's like an open source Google Photos. One of its features is an local AI model that recognises faces and tags names on them, as well as doing stuff like recognising when a picture is of a landscape, food, etc. Likewise, Firefox has a really good offline translation feature that runs locally and is open source. AI doesn't have to be bad. Big tech and venture capital is just choosing to make it so. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago* Seems that way: permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 9 months ago (1 child) Just the threat of being able to summarily remove AI content and hand out account discipline will cut down drastically on AI and practically eliminate the really low effort 'slop', it's not perfect but it's damn useful. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) It's also going to make it really easy to take down the content you don't like, just accuse it of being AI and watch the witch hunting roll in. I've seen plenty of examples of traditional artists getting accused of using AI in other forums, I don't imagine this will be any different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) People already mass report to abuse existing AI moderation tools. It's already starting to be accounted for and I can't imagine it so much as slowing down implementing an anti AI rule if I'm being honest. permalink fedilink source parent [+] oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 15 points 9 months ago (2 children) It's also going to make it really easy to take down the content you don't like, just accuse it of being AI and watch the witch hunting roll in. I've seen plenty of examples of traditional artists getting accused of using AI in other forums, I don't imagine this will be any different. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) People already mass report to abuse existing AI moderation tools. It's already starting to be accounted for and I can't imagine it so much as slowing down implementing an anti AI rule if I'm being honest. permalink fedilink source parent [+] oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) People already mass report to abuse existing AI moderation tools. It's already starting to be accounted for and I can't imagine it so much as slowing down implementing an anti AI rule if I'm being honest. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Capricorn_Geriatric@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago The ban doesn't need a 100% perfect AI screening protocol to be a success. Just the fact that AI is banned might appeal to a wide demographic. If the ban is actually enforced, even in just 25% of the most blatant cases, it might be just the push a new platform needs to take off. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] edryd@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 child) Just because something might be hard means we should give up before even trying? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rothe@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago Of course not, but I don't think anybody suggested that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Rothe@piefed.social 1 point 9 months ago Of course not, but I don't think anybody suggested that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org 1 point 9 months ago (2 children) Only if we let it be. There's no technical reason why the origin of a video couldn't have a signature generated by the capture device, or legally requiring AI models to do the same for any content they generate. Anything without an origin sticker is assumed to be garbage by default. Obviously there would need to be some way to make captures either anonymous or not at the user's choice, and nation states can evade these things with sufficient effort like they always do, but we could cut a lot of slop out by doing some simple stuff like that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] pennomi@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] kinsnik@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago while a phone signing a video to show that it was captured with the camera is possible, it will be easy too to fake the signature. all it would take would be a hacked device to steal the private key. and even if apple/google/samsung have perfectly secure systems to sign the origin of the video, there would be ton of cheaper phones that would likely won't. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] pennomi@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kinsnik@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago while a phone signing a video to show that it was captured with the camera is possible, it will be easy too to fake the signature. all it would take would be a hacked device to steal the private key. and even if apple/google/samsung have perfectly secure systems to sign the origin of the video, there would be ton of cheaper phones that would likely won't. permalink fedilink source parent