▲ 310 ▼ Maybe there was a cure for human cancer, but it didn't work at all in mice. (lemmy.world) submitted 9 months ago by tinfox@lemmy.world to c/showerthoughts@lemmy.world 84 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 9 months ago (1 child) I don't think that follows logically... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (2 children) The fact that we are not the animals they test on so they can never guarantee it'll react to humans the same way it does to the animals? That doesn't follow logically? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echindod@programming.dev 6 points 9 months ago It is theoretically possible that we are basal in such away that mice are derived given a certain ailment, that a treatment doesn't work on mice. However we are so damn closely related to mice that probability is vanishingly small, and in such cases where it is known about, they actually genetically modify the mouse to account for it. They used to do fertility tests on hamster ovum to see if a human male's sperm was viable. We are fucking close enough to hamsters a human sperm can cause a hamster ovum to start to divide. Granted, I will agree with you: much animal testing is fucking horrific and deplorable. But it is generally reliable. permalink fedilink source parent [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it does not. Saying we might not find x treatment because it didn't work on mice says absolutely nothing about the actual efficacy of testing on mice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) It does if it diverts attention away from other potential cures, not to mention making the animals' sacrifices even more in vain permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) How can we develop therapeutics without animal testing? Genuinely asking your thoughts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I'm not the expert but it seems naive to think animal testing is the one and only way. It's just an already established norm with some regions requiring it for eligibility of sale, that's why it's still as prevalent as it is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (2 children) The fact that we are not the animals they test on so they can never guarantee it'll react to humans the same way it does to the animals? That doesn't follow logically? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] echindod@programming.dev 6 points 9 months ago It is theoretically possible that we are basal in such away that mice are derived given a certain ailment, that a treatment doesn't work on mice. However we are so damn closely related to mice that probability is vanishingly small, and in such cases where it is known about, they actually genetically modify the mouse to account for it. They used to do fertility tests on hamster ovum to see if a human male's sperm was viable. We are fucking close enough to hamsters a human sperm can cause a hamster ovum to start to divide. Granted, I will agree with you: much animal testing is fucking horrific and deplorable. But it is generally reliable. permalink fedilink source parent [–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it does not. Saying we might not find x treatment because it didn't work on mice says absolutely nothing about the actual efficacy of testing on mice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) It does if it diverts attention away from other potential cures, not to mention making the animals' sacrifices even more in vain permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) How can we develop therapeutics without animal testing? Genuinely asking your thoughts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I'm not the expert but it seems naive to think animal testing is the one and only way. It's just an already established norm with some regions requiring it for eligibility of sale, that's why it's still as prevalent as it is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echindod@programming.dev 6 points 9 months ago It is theoretically possible that we are basal in such away that mice are derived given a certain ailment, that a treatment doesn't work on mice. However we are so damn closely related to mice that probability is vanishingly small, and in such cases where it is known about, they actually genetically modify the mouse to account for it. They used to do fertility tests on hamster ovum to see if a human male's sperm was viable. We are fucking close enough to hamsters a human sperm can cause a hamster ovum to start to divide. Granted, I will agree with you: much animal testing is fucking horrific and deplorable. But it is generally reliable. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) No, it does not. Saying we might not find x treatment because it didn't work on mice says absolutely nothing about the actual efficacy of testing on mice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) It does if it diverts attention away from other potential cures, not to mention making the animals' sacrifices even more in vain permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) How can we develop therapeutics without animal testing? Genuinely asking your thoughts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I'm not the expert but it seems naive to think animal testing is the one and only way. It's just an already established norm with some regions requiring it for eligibility of sale, that's why it's still as prevalent as it is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 0 points 9 months ago (1 child) It does if it diverts attention away from other potential cures, not to mention making the animals' sacrifices even more in vain permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) How can we develop therapeutics without animal testing? Genuinely asking your thoughts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I'm not the expert but it seems naive to think animal testing is the one and only way. It's just an already established norm with some regions requiring it for eligibility of sale, that's why it's still as prevalent as it is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 child) How can we develop therapeutics without animal testing? Genuinely asking your thoughts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I'm not the expert but it seems naive to think animal testing is the one and only way. It's just an already established norm with some regions requiring it for eligibility of sale, that's why it's still as prevalent as it is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 1 point 9 months ago (1 child) I'm not the expert but it seems naive to think animal testing is the one and only way. It's just an already established norm with some regions requiring it for eligibility of sale, that's why it's still as prevalent as it is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 1 point 9 months ago But what could replace it? Genuinely curious. I used to do animal studies in grad school. I don't see a better option for making sure this new drug doesn't kill Grandma. permalink fedilink source parent