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[+] 192 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)
  • [–] 93 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    For your point 6, they will ramp it up. That's what they do.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Its the Reichstag fire moment they've been waiting for...

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    Trump was literally shot last year. Surely that was a more fitting moment

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  • [+] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)
  • [+] 31 points 10 months ago (3 children)
  • so....we should be more concerned about teachers and students hurting some kids' feelings

    No?

    But it remains that the social dynamics at play make a lot of young conservatives ripe for grooming.

    It's kinda like being a socially awkward teen, and later becoming an Incel (capital I), and later believing that feminism is ripping society apart at its seams—there are pipelines that move people from childhood to adulthood. And sometimes these pipes stem from really simple things, like that modern city design and culture have made people really, really lonely.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    These emotionally damaged young men need to snap the fuck out of it and realize who is really hurting them and who really killed the American dream.

    That's like telling a depressed person to just be happy...

    "Pieces of shit like Charlie Kirk come along and" address these people's issues for better or for worse, while "some dumbass underpaid woke college professor" isn't (socially) allowed to do so or doesn't want to

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, Kirk was on Gavin Newsom’s podcast in March and Newsom talked about how his kids loved Kirk. How his 13-year-old son refused to go to school because he wanted to stay home and meet Charlie. And if that doesn’t tell you how wide Kirk’s appeal is among young people I don’t know what would.

    And look. A lot of people on the left also discount or ignore how young conservatives feel discriminated against in higher education. Rightly or wrongly, I’m talking about their beliefs, not the validity of those beliefs. Kids who come from red states with conservative Christian beliefs about sex, about gender, about what it means to be a man, they’re proud to go to college so they can earn a better living and do better for their future children than their parents did for them. And then they hit the culture shock of college and both students and teachers are telling them “everything you believe is wrong, you’re a bad person for believing it, and if you even try to argue for it we will ostracize you”.

    There is no 'rightly or wrongly' -- what you're describing is indoctrination and brainwashing. They are and should be discriminated against, but not because of where they're from or the color of their skin, but because they have been taught wrong, and most importantly have been taught to see challenges to their beliefs as a threat. The purpose of a school is not to validate your pre-existing beliefs, but to give you a space to challenge your ideas and learn new ones. Ignorance should not have a safe space there, and people who do not come to learn should not feel welcome.

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  • [+] -2 points 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (1 child)

    In a school, it should be safe to admit your ignorance.

    I didn't write very much, and I clearly didn't write that you shouldn't be able to admit ignorance at school. If you actually care about reading and understanding what I'm saying, then this is your opportunity to demonstrate you can roll it back, tone it down, and read what I wrote again. If some of it is ambiguous to you, you can ask me questions.

    It seems like you're looking for a leftist punching bag, and that will just make you look like another hateful violent right-wing brute. Are you afraid to talk about your beliefs? Are you afraid to talk about them anonymously and online?

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  • [+] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    Alright. What did you mean by “ignorance should not have a safe space there”?

    Last week, a student at Texas A&M objected to the professor teaching about "transgenderism" in the classroom. The teacher was doing their job, teaching the scientific consensus. Instead of challenging the teacher's ideas, the student challenged the legality of teaching science. The student was ignorant. Instead of admitting ignorance, or even assuming their own competence and trying to argue their ideas, the student took the third route: threats of political violence. The student warned the teacher that police could come and force the teacher from teaching the truth.

    Campuses should be very intolerant to ignorance like this student displayed. But instead the teacher, department head, and dean were all penalized for standing up against an enemy of free thought. That is the goal of this administration - to force indoctrination on American children, and shut down all the spaces where having discussions like this one we're having right now might open their eyes up to the lies they've been taught.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    You make a great point about how people feel that way, regardless of the reality. Many conservatives feel like it was illegal not to get the COVID vaccine, despite nowhere in the US having a legal requirement. It was simply businesses requiring it for their employees and/or customers

    To them the legal threat was very real, regardless of reality. Progressives need to understand that and work to alleviate the concerns of conservatives. We can shout all we want about how we shouldn't have to cater to them, or how basic empathy should be enough for conservatives, but that isn't the reality. If you genuinely feel immigrants are why you can't get a job, all empathy goes out the window. Telling them they're a bad person for doing something they think will help them feed their family will never work

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    You’re not wrong; this is a tough one to comment sensibly on.

    The crowd thing, it’s Utah; I would anticipate a crowd at an Utah university for something like this being full of homeschooled kids who haven’t broken away from parroting their parents’ views yet. Kirk is probably a hero in many of those households.

    I was thinking the same thing about the angle. The tent would’ve theoretically meant the shooter would’ve had to be at a similar level/grade to make that shot.

    I was only able to find censored versions of the video, but it sounds like he was hit in the neck. It will be a genuine miracle if he survives.

    You know what’s sort of depressingly funny? The country would be better off if he were jailed for speech inciting violence. Not this.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    You know what’s sort of depressingly funny? The country would be better off if he were jailed for speech inciting violence. Not this.

    Just as France would have been better off throwing Louis XVI in jail, but it was basically impossible to do. I’m very concerned about our coming reign of terror, but I didn’t realize how the tension slowly builds until you want something, anything to happen and finally move past it. Of course, a good chunk of those who died by Guillotine thought they’d be able to move past it at some point.

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Charlie Kirk is not exactly a subtle small face in all of that.

    🤣😂

    Agreed though everyone, even the shitheads that promotes political violence, deserve life.

    It's long past time that the US needs to grapple with guns and repeal the 2nd amendment

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Right, only Trump's government should have guns. Fuck the minorities

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    Consistent gun laws is not a huge ask. It’s simple fucking common sense. And anyway what’s the worry? We built a society so slavishly devoted to guns that children are routinely mowed down by gunfire and nothing happens. Relax.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    And lastly, I am wondering how this is going to impact Nazis like Kirk in general. Are they going to ramp it up or step it down?

    There's a reason marvel used a "Hydra" as the mascot for fascism. We're still at the beginning of this roller coaster.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago*

    Re. No. 6:

    The fascists want violence, against them and against their enemies. They want a fight. The fascists are celebrating right now. They aren't afraid. They never were. Exactly like Hamas and Al Qaida.

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