▲ 1396 ▼ Researchers jailbreak a Tesla to get free in-car feature upgrades (techcrunch.com) submitted 3 years ago by L4s@lemmy.world [M, B] to c/technology@lemmy.world 193 comments fedilink hide all child comments Researchers jailbreak a Tesla to get free in-car feature upgrades::A group of researchers found a way to hack a Tesla's hardware with the goal of getting free in-car upgrades, such as heated rear seats.
[–] foggy@lemmy.world 94 points 3 years ago (2 children) The future sucks. permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] gogosempai@programming.dev 54 points 3 years ago* (7 children) Hardware companies trying to copy the software companies with a subscription model really sucks. What's next? Intel charging a monthly fee to unlock 5 GHz boost? Nvidia charging a monthly fee if you want to do anything AI-related with their GPUs? Samsung and LG charging a monthly fee if you want to use a TV or a monitor for more than 2 hours a day? Greed knows no bounds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) Funnily enough, Intel tried something similar already in 2010 (way before their pay-as-you-go bullshit). It was a Pentium that you could unlock hyper-threading on for $50. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) Thankfully they sold terribly, but one has to wonder how long until they try it again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 years ago Don't they have that on server cpus now? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-on-demand-pay-as-you-go-feature-unlock-service-for-data-center-cpus permalink fedilink source parent [–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago* That model is here already for cloud computing, literally dollars for CPU cores and bandwidth and memory. But that only works out well for renting other people's servers and would be bad for any product that you purchase outright. I suggest we all not buy those products if they do that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@infosec.pub 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure intel do something like that with their server CPUs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 years ago Yep: Intel on Demand permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 3 years ago I hope no execs are reading this thread because if they had these ideas they'd have no qualms about implementing them permalink fedilink source parent [–] Webster@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago This isn't unusual for Enterprise grade IT hardware. Mainframes have been sold/licensed that way for decades. I recently dealt with a performance issue that we solved by buying a license to use more of a piece of hardware that was already in our data center (we didn't realize the piece we owned had twice the capacity that could be unlocked just through licensing till we engaged the vendor) permalink fedilink source parent [–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) Is that not what the K versions of their processors are? Pay more for the ability to overclock and get good speeds permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InternetUser2012@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Amd did that back in the day. All the chips were the same but locked out. You could scrape and use a pencil to draw in a jumper and make your chip the flagship one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rockinadios@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) Don’t give them ideas! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 665Goddamnit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago About that... permalink fedilink source parent [+] foxfox@lemmy.world 19 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 14 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 3 years ago (2 children) What is an alternative to capitalism? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 9 points 3 years ago* (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) Your analogy doesn't work at all. The answer you're being asked for needs to be a solution (what can replace capitalism?). The answer in your analogy is an observation (the plane crashed). It's fine to not have answers, but then your position is pretty useless. A societal system is a mandatory component of our lives. You can't get rid of it without it being replaced with something else. If we don't replace it, then one will arise naturally. To follow your cancer example, it's like a cancer patient saying they don't want chemo or radiation because it's not good enough. When they are asked what they want to do instead they just say "I don't have answers, I just know these treatments aren't very good". Winston Churchill is quoted saying Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried. Pretty much the same applies to capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Nastybutler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (3 children) You're right. It's always wise to break a system without having a plan of what to do once it's broken. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent [–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) I agree that unregulated capitalism has its flaws but I personally don't think that capitalism itself (if properly regulated) is inherently bad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent [+] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) That's a massive question for someone to answer in a lemmy comment. There may be a variety of alternative systems that can work. Trade and society are forms of technology that we've halted progress on by locking ourselves into archaic systems of governance. Just give people that reply a little latitude and understand no one person can fully describe a full system that took thousands of years of civilization could be replaced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think these questions are similar to the "I think we should fix society somewhat..." meme. Someone criticizing a thing is somehow expected to know and parrot a complete, flawless fix for the thing they're criticizing. How is that their responsibility at all? It isn't, and even if they did have a perfectly good answer, they're usually utterly powerless to implement it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gogosempai@programming.dev 54 points 3 years ago* (7 children) Hardware companies trying to copy the software companies with a subscription model really sucks. What's next? Intel charging a monthly fee to unlock 5 GHz boost? Nvidia charging a monthly fee if you want to do anything AI-related with their GPUs? Samsung and LG charging a monthly fee if you want to use a TV or a monitor for more than 2 hours a day? Greed knows no bounds. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) Funnily enough, Intel tried something similar already in 2010 (way before their pay-as-you-go bullshit). It was a Pentium that you could unlock hyper-threading on for $50. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) Thankfully they sold terribly, but one has to wonder how long until they try it again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 years ago Don't they have that on server cpus now? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-on-demand-pay-as-you-go-feature-unlock-service-for-data-center-cpus permalink fedilink source parent [–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago* That model is here already for cloud computing, literally dollars for CPU cores and bandwidth and memory. But that only works out well for renting other people's servers and would be bad for any product that you purchase outright. I suggest we all not buy those products if they do that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@infosec.pub 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure intel do something like that with their server CPUs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 years ago Yep: Intel on Demand permalink fedilink source parent [–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 3 years ago I hope no execs are reading this thread because if they had these ideas they'd have no qualms about implementing them permalink fedilink source parent [–] Webster@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago This isn't unusual for Enterprise grade IT hardware. Mainframes have been sold/licensed that way for decades. I recently dealt with a performance issue that we solved by buying a license to use more of a piece of hardware that was already in our data center (we didn't realize the piece we owned had twice the capacity that could be unlocked just through licensing till we engaged the vendor) permalink fedilink source parent [–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) Is that not what the K versions of their processors are? Pay more for the ability to overclock and get good speeds permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InternetUser2012@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Amd did that back in the day. All the chips were the same but locked out. You could scrape and use a pencil to draw in a jumper and make your chip the flagship one. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rockinadios@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) Don’t give them ideas! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 665Goddamnit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago About that... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FireWire400@lemmy.world 26 points 3 years ago (1 child) Funnily enough, Intel tried something similar already in 2010 (way before their pay-as-you-go bullshit). It was a Pentium that you could unlock hyper-threading on for $50. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) Thankfully they sold terribly, but one has to wonder how long until they try it again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 years ago Don't they have that on server cpus now? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-on-demand-pay-as-you-go-feature-unlock-service-for-data-center-cpus permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 16 points 3 years ago (1 child) Thankfully they sold terribly, but one has to wonder how long until they try it again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 years ago Don't they have that on server cpus now? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-on-demand-pay-as-you-go-feature-unlock-service-for-data-center-cpus permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 years ago Don't they have that on server cpus now? https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-unveils-on-demand-pay-as-you-go-feature-unlock-service-for-data-center-cpus permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago* That model is here already for cloud computing, literally dollars for CPU cores and bandwidth and memory. But that only works out well for renting other people's servers and would be bad for any product that you purchase outright. I suggest we all not buy those products if they do that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RobotToaster@infosec.pub 7 points 3 years ago (1 child) Pretty sure intel do something like that with their server CPUs. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 years ago Yep: Intel on Demand permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 3 years ago I hope no execs are reading this thread because if they had these ideas they'd have no qualms about implementing them permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Webster@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago This isn't unusual for Enterprise grade IT hardware. Mainframes have been sold/licensed that way for decades. I recently dealt with a performance issue that we solved by buying a license to use more of a piece of hardware that was already in our data center (we didn't realize the piece we owned had twice the capacity that could be unlocked just through licensing till we engaged the vendor) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) Is that not what the K versions of their processors are? Pay more for the ability to overclock and get good speeds permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] InternetUser2012@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Amd did that back in the day. All the chips were the same but locked out. You could scrape and use a pencil to draw in a jumper and make your chip the flagship one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] InternetUser2012@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Amd did that back in the day. All the chips were the same but locked out. You could scrape and use a pencil to draw in a jumper and make your chip the flagship one. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rockinadios@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) Don’t give them ideas! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 665Goddamnit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago About that... permalink fedilink source parent
[+] foxfox@lemmy.world 19 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 14 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 3 years ago (2 children) What is an alternative to capitalism? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 9 points 3 years ago* (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) Your analogy doesn't work at all. The answer you're being asked for needs to be a solution (what can replace capitalism?). The answer in your analogy is an observation (the plane crashed). It's fine to not have answers, but then your position is pretty useless. A societal system is a mandatory component of our lives. You can't get rid of it without it being replaced with something else. If we don't replace it, then one will arise naturally. To follow your cancer example, it's like a cancer patient saying they don't want chemo or radiation because it's not good enough. When they are asked what they want to do instead they just say "I don't have answers, I just know these treatments aren't very good". Winston Churchill is quoted saying Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried. Pretty much the same applies to capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Nastybutler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (3 children) You're right. It's always wise to break a system without having a plan of what to do once it's broken. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent [–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) I agree that unregulated capitalism has its flaws but I personally don't think that capitalism itself (if properly regulated) is inherently bad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent [+] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) That's a massive question for someone to answer in a lemmy comment. There may be a variety of alternative systems that can work. Trade and society are forms of technology that we've halted progress on by locking ourselves into archaic systems of governance. Just give people that reply a little latitude and understand no one person can fully describe a full system that took thousands of years of civilization could be replaced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think these questions are similar to the "I think we should fix society somewhat..." meme. Someone criticizing a thing is somehow expected to know and parrot a complete, flawless fix for the thing they're criticizing. How is that their responsibility at all? It isn't, and even if they did have a perfectly good answer, they're usually utterly powerless to implement it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 14 points 3 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 3 years ago (2 children) What is an alternative to capitalism? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 9 points 3 years ago* (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) Your analogy doesn't work at all. The answer you're being asked for needs to be a solution (what can replace capitalism?). The answer in your analogy is an observation (the plane crashed). It's fine to not have answers, but then your position is pretty useless. A societal system is a mandatory component of our lives. You can't get rid of it without it being replaced with something else. If we don't replace it, then one will arise naturally. To follow your cancer example, it's like a cancer patient saying they don't want chemo or radiation because it's not good enough. When they are asked what they want to do instead they just say "I don't have answers, I just know these treatments aren't very good". Winston Churchill is quoted saying Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried. Pretty much the same applies to capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Nastybutler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (3 children) You're right. It's always wise to break a system without having a plan of what to do once it's broken. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent [–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) I agree that unregulated capitalism has its flaws but I personally don't think that capitalism itself (if properly regulated) is inherently bad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent [+] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) That's a massive question for someone to answer in a lemmy comment. There may be a variety of alternative systems that can work. Trade and society are forms of technology that we've halted progress on by locking ourselves into archaic systems of governance. Just give people that reply a little latitude and understand no one person can fully describe a full system that took thousands of years of civilization could be replaced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think these questions are similar to the "I think we should fix society somewhat..." meme. Someone criticizing a thing is somehow expected to know and parrot a complete, flawless fix for the thing they're criticizing. How is that their responsibility at all? It isn't, and even if they did have a perfectly good answer, they're usually utterly powerless to implement it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -3 points 3 years ago (2 children) What is an alternative to capitalism? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 9 points 3 years ago* (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) Your analogy doesn't work at all. The answer you're being asked for needs to be a solution (what can replace capitalism?). The answer in your analogy is an observation (the plane crashed). It's fine to not have answers, but then your position is pretty useless. A societal system is a mandatory component of our lives. You can't get rid of it without it being replaced with something else. If we don't replace it, then one will arise naturally. To follow your cancer example, it's like a cancer patient saying they don't want chemo or radiation because it's not good enough. When they are asked what they want to do instead they just say "I don't have answers, I just know these treatments aren't very good". Winston Churchill is quoted saying Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried. Pretty much the same applies to capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Nastybutler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (3 children) You're right. It's always wise to break a system without having a plan of what to do once it's broken. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent [–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) I agree that unregulated capitalism has its flaws but I personally don't think that capitalism itself (if properly regulated) is inherently bad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent [+] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) That's a massive question for someone to answer in a lemmy comment. There may be a variety of alternative systems that can work. Trade and society are forms of technology that we've halted progress on by locking ourselves into archaic systems of governance. Just give people that reply a little latitude and understand no one person can fully describe a full system that took thousands of years of civilization could be replaced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think these questions are similar to the "I think we should fix society somewhat..." meme. Someone criticizing a thing is somehow expected to know and parrot a complete, flawless fix for the thing they're criticizing. How is that their responsibility at all? It isn't, and even if they did have a perfectly good answer, they're usually utterly powerless to implement it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 9 points 3 years ago* (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) Your analogy doesn't work at all. The answer you're being asked for needs to be a solution (what can replace capitalism?). The answer in your analogy is an observation (the plane crashed). It's fine to not have answers, but then your position is pretty useless. A societal system is a mandatory component of our lives. You can't get rid of it without it being replaced with something else. If we don't replace it, then one will arise naturally. To follow your cancer example, it's like a cancer patient saying they don't want chemo or radiation because it's not good enough. When they are asked what they want to do instead they just say "I don't have answers, I just know these treatments aren't very good". Winston Churchill is quoted saying Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried. Pretty much the same applies to capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Nastybutler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (3 children) You're right. It's always wise to break a system without having a plan of what to do once it's broken. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent [–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent [–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) I agree that unregulated capitalism has its flaws but I personally don't think that capitalism itself (if properly regulated) is inherently bad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent [+] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 0 points 3 years ago (2 children) Your analogy doesn't work at all. The answer you're being asked for needs to be a solution (what can replace capitalism?). The answer in your analogy is an observation (the plane crashed). It's fine to not have answers, but then your position is pretty useless. A societal system is a mandatory component of our lives. You can't get rid of it without it being replaced with something else. If we don't replace it, then one will arise naturally. To follow your cancer example, it's like a cancer patient saying they don't want chemo or radiation because it's not good enough. When they are asked what they want to do instead they just say "I don't have answers, I just know these treatments aren't very good". Winston Churchill is quoted saying Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those others that have been tried. Pretty much the same applies to capitalism. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] CaptainAniki@lemmy.flight-crew.org 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago A societal system is an emergent property of social beings interacting. Mandatory is a really awkward way of saying that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Nastybutler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 years ago (3 children) You're right. It's always wise to break a system without having a plan of what to do once it's broken. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent [–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Why would you disingenuously assume break the system instead of fix the system? You aren't breaking a patient by cutting out a cancer. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 3 points 3 years ago (1 child) Humanity got into the air without a plan for airports or fuel consumption. Most of the time, doing the thing is more important than planning for its consequences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 years ago Counterpoint: Current ML/AI trends and the attempts to claw back digital privacy after tech outpaced the rules that could be made for responsible use. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whatsarefoogee@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I am sure Anarchy will lead us to a humanitarian utopia. Definitely not to an even worse form of capitalism. No, sir. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I don't think it's actually possible that actual anarchy would lead to more advanced capitalism immediately superceding it. Today's capitalism is only possible through the large amount of complexity our system can manage. A collapse is sometimes defined as a rapid simplification of a society...in a collapse scenario...I don't think we'd be able to have three different payment mechanisms for one card, international credit organized, or software as a service models. If the instability of the US causes it to go to anarchy, nobody will give a shit about evil corp's business model and its corresponding license agreement. If they need to break it to eat, they will. They'll break it so often that it might as well not exist. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com -5 points 3 years ago (2 children) I agree that unregulated capitalism has its flaws but I personally don't think that capitalism itself (if properly regulated) is inherently bad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent [+] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cabrio@lemmy.world 5 points 3 years ago* Capitalism is inherently bad because every dollar of profit is a dollar exploited from the supplier, producer, worker, and customer all to benefit the owner who only got to their position by having exploited enough people and sequestered enough resources through leveraging this hellish ouroborus. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) That's a massive question for someone to answer in a lemmy comment. There may be a variety of alternative systems that can work. Trade and society are forms of technology that we've halted progress on by locking ourselves into archaic systems of governance. Just give people that reply a little latitude and understand no one person can fully describe a full system that took thousands of years of civilization could be replaced. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think these questions are similar to the "I think we should fix society somewhat..." meme. Someone criticizing a thing is somehow expected to know and parrot a complete, flawless fix for the thing they're criticizing. How is that their responsibility at all? It isn't, and even if they did have a perfectly good answer, they're usually utterly powerless to implement it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago (1 child) I think these questions are similar to the "I think we should fix society somewhat..." meme. Someone criticizing a thing is somehow expected to know and parrot a complete, flawless fix for the thing they're criticizing. How is that their responsibility at all? It isn't, and even if they did have a perfectly good answer, they're usually utterly powerless to implement it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PsychedSy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago It's pretty normal for people. Anti-auth positions are terrifying to many. How will I feed my dogs if there's no Purina? Forest for the trees and all that. What fucks me up is I come from an ethical position, so I don't actually care how we solve problems so long as it's voluntary. permalink fedilink source parent