▲ 273 ▼ Why most countries are struggling to shut down 2G. (restofworld.org) submitted 1 year ago by Tea@programming.dev to c/technology@lemmy.world 75 comments fedilink hide all child comments Global leap to 4G and 5G would cut off phone access for millions of vulnerable people. Telecom companies aim to profit from the 2G-to-5G transition as governments worldwide face pressure to free up mobile spectrum. Vietnam is the latest country to shut down 2G by offering free 4G phones to the poor. India and South Africa have expressed concern that the strategy would cut off phone access for millions of vulnerable people.
[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago (7 children) what benefits does 5g offer over 2g? permalink fedilink source hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (1 child) lower range. oh you said benefits? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Higher bandwidth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Already unable to make use of 4G's capabilities, virtually nobody feels the speed of 5G. and I'm not an average user, I'm making use of my uncapped home internet! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago I would probably notice the difference if I had cellular home internet, so I could see the use there. Oh my phone, yeah, the only way I can tell is by watching for the icon to change permalink fedilink source parent [–] cynar@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) 5g is a lot more capable and flexible compared to older generations. The main one is a massive increase in capacity, for the same frequency allocations. Compounding with this is that it can be directional. This allows several phones to use the exact same channel simultaneously, so long as they are positioned at different angles to the tower. 5g also uses more frequency bands, allowing even more data to be moved around. Unfortunately, 2g has most of the lower frequencies, higher frequencies carry more data, but have less penetration into buildings. Finally, 5g allows for priority and context awareness. E.g. the police can have their phones prioritised, or VoIP calls given priority over video streaming. It can also trade bandwidth for range. This allows a tower to either reach further to cover a larger area, or focus down, to provide more bandwidth locally. In theory 5g could have a similar range to 2g. However, that rarely happens. It requires it using the lower frequencies, that 2g currently uses, and well as dropping its data rate to improve range. Most of the time it's optimised for shorter range, and more towers using higher frequencies. This gives impression of a far smaller range. But give a huge increase is available bandwidth. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Thanks for the real answer! If it can be directional, presumably this would be good for positioning as well? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cynar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago To an extent. You are still talking 20-40 degree windows, but triangulation is definitely possible. I'm not sure if it's used like that however. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Tea@programming.dev [S] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) [Not Serious] 3 numbers more. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago Ah, well, my G goes to 11 permalink fedilink source parent [–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago The “g” stands for generation. So it’s the 5th iteration of the technology versus the 2nd iteration. Whilst there are many improvements (speed, capacity, security etc) there are some negatives. (I believe mainly to do with signal penetration - i.e. getting a signal in basements, stone wall houses, being behind objects etc.) Where I’m currently staying I have: 2G, edge, 4G and 5G signals available. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) 5g > 2g if g is positive permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Tenkard@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Aktchually g gets simplified so it's 5 > 2 for any value permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is zero? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SyntaxError@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Zero g is only available in special airplanes and in space, so not much of a worry for most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago Damn it! I was dreaming of one day scrolling Lemmy on a 0g connection. You ruined my dreams and I am sad now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 year ago* If you divide an inequality by a negative number you have to flip the sign. If you want to divide out the g before knowing if it's positive or negative you need to make the case distinction. If you make the case distinction and one branch results in a false statement (5 < 2 in this case), you have disproven the original inequality, or at least discovered a constraint on the original inequality. Then you arrive back at FooBarrington's statement that includes the constraint :-) permalink fedilink source parent [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is a complex number? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I don't believe in such trite charlatanery "But I've learned about imaginary numbers in mathematics degree" well, that and $20 dollars will buy you an egg permalink fedilink source parent [–] Allero@lemmy.today 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Obviously Internet speed and call quality, plus there are many good technical changes under the hood, such as proper isolation of calls etc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Excigma@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I think it handles congestion better and saves energy for the cell tower. It's a good choice for crowded city centres, near university campuses and train stations where many people frequent permalink fedilink source parent [+] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 year ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago (1 child) lower range. oh you said benefits? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Higher bandwidth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Already unable to make use of 4G's capabilities, virtually nobody feels the speed of 5G. and I'm not an average user, I'm making use of my uncapped home internet! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago I would probably notice the difference if I had cellular home internet, so I could see the use there. Oh my phone, yeah, the only way I can tell is by watching for the icon to change permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Higher bandwidth permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Already unable to make use of 4G's capabilities, virtually nobody feels the speed of 5G. and I'm not an average user, I'm making use of my uncapped home internet! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago I would probably notice the difference if I had cellular home internet, so I could see the use there. Oh my phone, yeah, the only way I can tell is by watching for the icon to change permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago (1 child) Already unable to make use of 4G's capabilities, virtually nobody feels the speed of 5G. and I'm not an average user, I'm making use of my uncapped home internet! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago I would probably notice the difference if I had cellular home internet, so I could see the use there. Oh my phone, yeah, the only way I can tell is by watching for the icon to change permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago I would probably notice the difference if I had cellular home internet, so I could see the use there. Oh my phone, yeah, the only way I can tell is by watching for the icon to change permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cynar@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 child) 5g is a lot more capable and flexible compared to older generations. The main one is a massive increase in capacity, for the same frequency allocations. Compounding with this is that it can be directional. This allows several phones to use the exact same channel simultaneously, so long as they are positioned at different angles to the tower. 5g also uses more frequency bands, allowing even more data to be moved around. Unfortunately, 2g has most of the lower frequencies, higher frequencies carry more data, but have less penetration into buildings. Finally, 5g allows for priority and context awareness. E.g. the police can have their phones prioritised, or VoIP calls given priority over video streaming. It can also trade bandwidth for range. This allows a tower to either reach further to cover a larger area, or focus down, to provide more bandwidth locally. In theory 5g could have a similar range to 2g. However, that rarely happens. It requires it using the lower frequencies, that 2g currently uses, and well as dropping its data rate to improve range. Most of the time it's optimised for shorter range, and more towers using higher frequencies. This gives impression of a far smaller range. But give a huge increase is available bandwidth. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Thanks for the real answer! If it can be directional, presumably this would be good for positioning as well? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cynar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago To an extent. You are still talking 20-40 degree windows, but triangulation is definitely possible. I'm not sure if it's used like that however. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) Thanks for the real answer! If it can be directional, presumably this would be good for positioning as well? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cynar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago To an extent. You are still talking 20-40 degree windows, but triangulation is definitely possible. I'm not sure if it's used like that however. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cynar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago To an extent. You are still talking 20-40 degree windows, but triangulation is definitely possible. I'm not sure if it's used like that however. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tea@programming.dev [S] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child) [Not Serious] 3 numbers more. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago Ah, well, my G goes to 11 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago Ah, well, my G goes to 11 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago The “g” stands for generation. So it’s the 5th iteration of the technology versus the 2nd iteration. Whilst there are many improvements (speed, capacity, security etc) there are some negatives. (I believe mainly to do with signal penetration - i.e. getting a signal in basements, stone wall houses, being behind objects etc.) Where I’m currently staying I have: 2G, edge, 4G and 5G signals available. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (2 children) 5g > 2g if g is positive permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Tenkard@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Aktchually g gets simplified so it's 5 > 2 for any value permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is zero? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SyntaxError@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Zero g is only available in special airplanes and in space, so not much of a worry for most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago Damn it! I was dreaming of one day scrolling Lemmy on a 0g connection. You ruined my dreams and I am sad now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 year ago* If you divide an inequality by a negative number you have to flip the sign. If you want to divide out the g before knowing if it's positive or negative you need to make the case distinction. If you make the case distinction and one branch results in a false statement (5 < 2 in this case), you have disproven the original inequality, or at least discovered a constraint on the original inequality. Then you arrive back at FooBarrington's statement that includes the constraint :-) permalink fedilink source parent [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is a complex number? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I don't believe in such trite charlatanery "But I've learned about imaginary numbers in mathematics degree" well, that and $20 dollars will buy you an egg permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Tenkard@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (2 children) Aktchually g gets simplified so it's 5 > 2 for any value permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is zero? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SyntaxError@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Zero g is only available in special airplanes and in space, so not much of a worry for most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago Damn it! I was dreaming of one day scrolling Lemmy on a 0g connection. You ruined my dreams and I am sad now. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 year ago* If you divide an inequality by a negative number you have to flip the sign. If you want to divide out the g before knowing if it's positive or negative you need to make the case distinction. If you make the case distinction and one branch results in a false statement (5 < 2 in this case), you have disproven the original inequality, or at least discovered a constraint on the original inequality. Then you arrive back at FooBarrington's statement that includes the constraint :-) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is zero? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SyntaxError@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Zero g is only available in special airplanes and in space, so not much of a worry for most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago Damn it! I was dreaming of one day scrolling Lemmy on a 0g connection. You ruined my dreams and I am sad now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SyntaxError@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Zero g is only available in special airplanes and in space, so not much of a worry for most people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago Damn it! I was dreaming of one day scrolling Lemmy on a 0g connection. You ruined my dreams and I am sad now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] jim3692@discuss.online 2 points 1 year ago Damn it! I was dreaming of one day scrolling Lemmy on a 0g connection. You ruined my dreams and I am sad now. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 point 1 year ago* If you divide an inequality by a negative number you have to flip the sign. If you want to divide out the g before knowing if it's positive or negative you need to make the case distinction. If you make the case distinction and one branch results in a false statement (5 < 2 in this case), you have disproven the original inequality, or at least discovered a constraint on the original inequality. Then you arrive back at FooBarrington's statement that includes the constraint :-) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 child) What if g is a complex number? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I don't believe in such trite charlatanery "But I've learned about imaginary numbers in mathematics degree" well, that and $20 dollars will buy you an egg permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I don't believe in such trite charlatanery "But I've learned about imaginary numbers in mathematics degree" well, that and $20 dollars will buy you an egg permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Allero@lemmy.today 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child) Obviously Internet speed and call quality, plus there are many good technical changes under the hood, such as proper isolation of calls etc. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Excigma@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I think it handles congestion better and saves energy for the cell tower. It's a good choice for crowded city centres, near university campuses and train stations where many people frequent permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Excigma@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago I think it handles congestion better and saves energy for the cell tower. It's a good choice for crowded city centres, near university campuses and train stations where many people frequent permalink fedilink source parent