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Any chance to have a separated [PORN] tag to avoid blocking all kind of NSFW posts? (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago* by to c/fediverse@lemmy.world
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Many NSFW have nothing to do with porn. Sometimes are horror contents, some times are crude images, some times are just lazy people who don't know of the Spoiler tag. Can we have a quick and easy way to filter off all the (very funny but not alway wanted) Porn posts without locking out those other contents???

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[–] 71 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The tags are currently worked on, if you want to say something to make a change, write there.

https://github.com/Neshura87/Lemmy-RFC

Github issue that started the tags conversation. https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/317

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  • [–] 30 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I don't think tags would be a solution as they wouldn't be standard threadiverse-wide. Also porn communities would want to mark their posts with specifying tags like every other community does instead of a generic porn tag.

    What's needed is expansion of the nsfw mark into subcategories

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    there is proposal for three types of tags: NSFW, spoiler and generic. NSFW and spoiler will blur the images, and generic tags are for content categorization. NSFW and spoiler tags should have the same behavior on lemmy. kbin dev will want to make parity change for his feature.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    I still don't think it'd be enough to leave nsfw tag creation to communities. Even if a porn community created multiple tags under nsfw to classify their posts that would do nothing to help people block all porn on the platform. Porn, gore etc need to be their own tag types under the general nsfw type.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I would recommend you read the request for comment made by Neshura87, there he explained that it won't work like that. nsfw and spoiler tags are embedded into lemmy software.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    I read the thing, but that's still no reason not to seperate nsfw category further. It makes no mention of a technical limitation that prevents creation of more categories, it's just a person suggesting how a tag system could look like.

    there he explained that it won't work like that

    The entire reason I'm commenting is because I don't want it to work like that. I have no idea how to reply to a git commit, if I did I'd object there too.

    1. CW and NSFW are too broad to be the only 2 types of tags.

    2. The suggestion to use tag urls as ids don't work with the idea of using ids to share tags across instances. I don't want the entire threadiverse to decide https://lemmy.world/t/nsfw is the global nsfw tag and smaller instances being forced to use that or risk people facing unsolicited nsfw from their instance.

    3. There is no mention of filtering posts based on their tag category, which would make it impossible to block nsfw posts across instances without using the shared id. There needs to be platform level tag categories (especially for things people might not want to see) so content filtering works in a consistent and decentralised manner. Then individual instances or communities can create their their own tags based on those categories to fit their needs.

    4. The author seems to want to replace the spoiler mark with a (cw) tag called spoiler, but things can be both spoilers and fall under other tags (ie an image post, a leak, a discussion etc). Also this would pointlessly filter out regular spoiler content if a user blocks tags with the cw category.

    The way I'd want things is tags and spoilers / content warnings being completely seperate from each other at the platform level:

    Content warnings to let people filter out content they don't want to see. They wouldn't a content discovery tool. And they would be nestable. There would be platform wide default ones like

    • Spoiler
    • Nsfw
      • Artful nudity
        • Nudity
          • Porn
      • Shock
        • Injury
          • Gore
      • Slurs

    . Users would be able to choose whether to show, blur or block content with these warnings in the settings. Instances and communities would be able to make their own content warning as well, managed by the user in the settings of a community. A user creating a post would see a menu to pick the content warnings (multiple if they want) that describe their post. Tags describe content to people who want to find such content. There could be generic platform wide ones like news, qna etc, but the majority would be community specific. Tags could also include default content warnings (eg 'leak' tag could activate the spoiler content warning).

    I think this would be the most elegant way to do it, but even what we have now feels better than what is proposed in that link

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Preffix: someone needs to fix comments disapearing when clicking on literally anything at all.

    Commenting directly since ludrol tagged me.

    CW and NSFW are too broad to be the only 2 types of tags.

    There will be 3: NSFW, CW and Generic. Excuse the passive aggressiveness but this tells me you didn't read the RFC at all

    The suggestion to use tag urls as ids don’t work with the idea of using ids to share tags across instances. I don’t want the entire threadiverse to decide https://lemmy.world/t/nsfw is the global nsfw tag and smaller instances being forced to use that or risk people facing unsolicited nsfw from their instance.

    Your example makes no sense as people not wanting to see will block the entire NSFW tag type in the settings, not the instance tag. The id's are for granular filtering, not for blanket blocking

    There is no mention of filtering posts based on their tag category, which would make it impossible to block nsfw posts across instances without using the shared id.

    Is there now? Gee I sure wonder what I wrote in that Outlook section....

    There needs to be platform level tag categories (especially for things people might not want to see) so content filtering works in a consistent and decentralised manner. Then individual instances or communities can create their their own tags based on those categories to fit their needs.

    Preset tags can and will definitely be included, not least of all because functionality of the current borked NSFW system will need to be preserved once it is replaced with the tag system. What you are describing here is pretty much what I wrote in the RFC, again: Did you actually read that thing?

    The author seems to want to replace the spoiler mark with a (cw) tag called spoiler, but things can be both spoilers and fall under other tags (ie an image post, a leak, a discussion etc). Also this would pointlessly filter out regular spoiler content if a user blocks tags with the cw category.

    See my point regarding NSFW filtering, if a user does not want to see some Spoilers they would filter out those Spoilers or Whitelist the ones they want to see (more likely option but both are possible). Problems like this are partly why the Filter System debate is still ongoing. Changing the tags to be limited to certain groups does not really fix this problem, it simply moves the workload from the moderators to the devs.

    Users would be able to choose whether to show, blur or block content with these warnings in the settings.

    Is the plan with my RFC as well, again your idea moves the burden of moderation to the devs which is a horrible idea, there already isn't enough brainpower behind this project.

    A user creating a post would see a menu to pick the content warnings (multiple if they want) that describe their post. Tags describe content to people who want to find such content. There could be generic platform wide ones like news, qna etc, but the majority would be community specific. Tags could also include default content warnings (eg ‘leak’ tag could activate the spoiler content warning).

    You are almost literally describing my RFC, i ask again did you actually read it?!

    but even what we have now feels better than what is proposed in that link

    lol.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)
    • There will be 3: NSFW, CW and Generic. Excuse the passive aggressiveness but this tells me you didn't read the RFC at all

    I thought it was obvious that generic is even broder than nsfw or cw, and is irrelevant since we're talking about nsfw type not being specific enough. And your writing isn't passive aggressive, it sounds angry. If you didn't want comments why name it request for comment?

    Your example makes no sense as people not wanting to see will block the entire NSFW tag type in the settings,

    Your rfc doesn't mention that, it only mentions blocking tags.

    This is what your outlook section says:

    There have already been several discussions about future expansions, in particular filtering tags has been requested. Given this proposal tag filtering in the feed view should be possible without further changes to the backend.

    Do you see tag type filtering anywhere?

    Preset tags can and will definitely be included... What you are describing here is pretty much what I wrote in the RFC

    You wrote of only having the nsfw and cw (and general) types in the rfc. I didn't see anything about expanding that to more specific types. And if you mean having an nsfw tag with the name porn, it's not clear in the rfc that tag names can be used for filtering.

    Using the object ID optional tag federation can also be achieved, allowing for communities across multiple instances to share content via tags

    Makes it sound like only tags with the same id would be considered the same in the interface, so the same preset tag from different instances/communities would not be interchangeable.

    See my point regarding NSFW filtering,

    If your point was:

    Theoretically NSFW could be implemented using a preset "Content Warning" tag but seperating out this tag allows instances to better filter it out for moderation purposes

    Then your point is that it does make sense to have more tag types if they're important enough, so that's not a point against having a spoiler tag type. Anyways, I wrote that because I thought every post would be limited to 1 tag like on reddit and didn't see the news example. Mb.

    You are almost literally describing my RFC, i ask again did you actually read it?!

    Stop being so flippant about it. I read your post. It talks about a single tag system that also takes the role of content warnings. I specifically wrote that (imo) content warnings (for filtering out) should be seperate than tags (for filtering in). Also your post doesn't mention platform wide default tags.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    First of all I want to sort of apologize, my comment was a lot angrier than initially intended because first lemmy erased my first draft (which was not nearly as aggressive) and then my hunger caught up with me. Not meant as an excuse for it but rather an explanation that the anger wasn't intended.

    Your rfc doesn’t mention that, it only mentions blocking tags.

    Currently ther e is an option to block NSFW entirely, under the tag system that functionality has to be preserved, therefore at the very least an option to completely block the nsfw type tag will be implemented. I did not think mentioning that no feature degradation should occur was necessary, given that it caused some confusion I'll probably go back and write the implicit parts out.

    Do you see tag type filtering anywhere?

    As quoted by yourself later on:

    Theoretically NSFW could be implemented using a preset "Content Warning" tag but seperating out this tag allows instances to better filter it out for moderation purposes (for example if no admin/moderator is willing to moderate NSFW content)

    Again I did not think I needed to explicitly state that this easier filtering would be done via the type because I thought it was implicitly clear from the context.

    it’s not clear in the rfc that tag names can be used for filtering.

    Same reason as above but this time even more fundamental: I'm not gonna rechew programming basics in a document aimed at other programmers. The ability to filter by name is given since the thing has its own json field.

    Makes it sound like only tags with the same id would be considered the same in the interface, so the same preset tag from different instances/communities would not be interchangeable.

    They would not and that is indeed a minor issue with the entire thing. I don't really think that will be a big issue since tag filtering will likely be done via type + name and not via id as well as tags being coalesced due to federation. Aside from that the default settings of tags should prevent accidental viewing of content (as mentioned in the RFC both NSFW and CW tags will be blurred by default, meaning until users can select to not blur a cw tag themselves)

    Then your point is that it does make sense to have more tag types if they’re important enough, so that’s not a point against having a spoiler tag type. Anyways, I wrote that because I thought every post would be limited to 1 tag like on reddit and didn’t see the news example. Mb.

    It's fine, what I think I should include in the RFC is the possibility to include more tag types should real use of tags show that they would be beneficial. It's a lot easier to add categories there than remove them later on which is why I want to keep the initial amount of types to the absolute minimum needed. In this case that's 2+1 since NSFW needs to be split off from cw for feature parity with the current NSFW system.

    content warnings (for filtering out) should be seperate than tags (for filtering in)

    Programmatically speaking there is absolutely no difference between filtering in and filtering out, which is why I don't think splitting CWs and Tags makes sense. From what I can tell the other Fediverse Platforms handle this in a very similar manner. It also assumes that everyone only wants to filter out CWs, but that is not true. Some people want to filter out porn, others want explicitly only porn in their feed. Some users might not want to see gore or spoilers while others like to read through those things. So in the end there is not even a line between clear "filter-in" and "filter-out" labels for posts.

    Edit: forgot to include but to clear up another misunderstanding: RFC means Request for Change, comments are welcome but it is primarily a document aimed at people already somewhat familiar with the debate to find any major issues with the proposal. I wrote the RFC only after my basic idea received approval by the people already involved in the GitHub discussion.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Okay, thanks for replying. Your points make sense, especially

    It's a lot easier to add categories there than remove them later on which is why I want to keep the initial amount of types to the absolute minimum needed.

    this one. I also wasn't aware that the document was a part of a larger discussion and sorry about the rfc meaning confusion😅

    Hope you could have a meal :)

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    @neshura@bookwormstory.social tagging the author.

    as I understand:

    1. we have 3 types of tags CW, NSFW and general type
      CW makes images blurred and text collapsed
      NSFW is the same as CW but you can opt in in setting to see all types of porn
      general tags are additional to tags above to specify content type: hentai, news, memes, etc.
      you can tag things with multiple general tags + CW or NSFW

    2. we won't have only lemmy.world/t/nsfw but also lemm.ee/t/nsfw and szmer.info/t/nsfw and this NSFW tags should be federated. All posts should appear the same if someone is following the same communities. Moderators can handle untagged content and tag accordingly.

    3. This is worth adding

    4. CW tag is based on activityPub protocol but author wants to split it on lemmy into CW and NSFW. On mastodon there is only CW for everything and #hashtags for specifying.

    5. Proposition is for different architecture

      • NSFW for porn
      • spoiler blurred not porn
      • general for type content that is inside of a post: (nudity, hardcore porn, hentai, news, memes)

    6. Ability to choose which tags to show, which to hide is good addition. Automatic addition of CW for certain tags is also fine proposition.
      something worth exploring is same general tags that are federated across instances

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago

    With #2, my problem was that without the ability to block categories, different instances would need to use the same shared id for the nsfw tag to let users block all nsfw at once; which is a regression from the current sceme.

    general tags are additional to tags above to specify content type

    So like hastags? I had assumed 1 tag per post

    1. Proposition is for different architecture

    Put that in there in case someone asks why I'm criticizing the current plan without providing an alternate one.

    Anyways, this scheme doesn't solve what op has asked for, which is to block porn posts platform wide without blocking all nsfw posts. With this scheme they'd need to add every community / instance's porn tag to their blacklist one by one, and it's not even guaranteed that posters would use the porn tag in addition to a more specific tag. Letting moderators set default tags for communities could solve the second problem. But to solve the first one either tags need to be blockable by name (instead of id) or there needs to be a seperate tag category for porn

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    I think copying Mastodon would be the best for this. You can mark the post as sensitive (nsfw), which blurs the images. You can also add a content warning that can be used for anything (nsfw, nsfl, spoilers, etc).

    And then use tags separately for categorizing posts.

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