▲ 859 ▼ Rednote right now (lemmy.ml) submitted 2 years ago by Alsephina@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 534 comments fedilink hide all child comments The conversations are amazing
[+] spencerwi@lemm.ee 63 points 2 years ago (7 children) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 46 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System In the Wikipedia article itself: There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit "score" based on individuals' behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit "score" is a myth as there is "no score that dictates citizen's place in society".[7] permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago* (3 children) I have some sources on the child and slave labor, if that helps. https://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/genocide-of-the-uyghurs-in-western-china/china-tibet-and-the-uyghurs https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton This last one is ‘Western propaganda’ but is very helpful in identifying the types of products to avoid. It’s near impossible in the US, unless you make your own textiles/clothes or only buy second-hand. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago (2 children) Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever. The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide). The third link has Zenz again as its main source. Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here's a megathread: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dop@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (2 children) I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don't spread misinformation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (2 children) No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications. For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own. Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago It's funny that we're arguing this on a platform that's legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I? permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children) There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (17 children) No nation has "free and open internet" in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments load more comments (17 replies) load more comments (2 replies) [–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's too bad the people of China aren't allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago 🤣 https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-internet-is-flooded-with-wikipedia-edits-made-by-government-and-big-oil/ permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to. As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it's largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017. http://hongkongfp.com/2018/11/20/filipinos-flood-social-media-winnie-pooh-memes-xi-jinping-visits-manila/ https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655 https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/11/21/1870392/winning-pooh-images-flood-social-media-xi-jinping-arrives permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (24 children) It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you're saying. What has come from that isn't a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago (3 children) The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship. First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started. I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (23 replies) [–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago* (2 children) Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it "good enough?" It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting. Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments. These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there's no such thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] uranibaba@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says "Social credit. We don't have this at all" and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a "social credit score", and gave more details about how it's administered. Basically, the headline is "no, it's not at all what you've heard", and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I'm not sure your point about "there's no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere" is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan "whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere." If that's not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that's not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that's exactly how it works doesn't serve your argument. And "well but the West is totally lying, maaan" isn't proof; it's an unverified claim by a random internet commenter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (3 replies)
[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 46 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System In the Wikipedia article itself: There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit "score" based on individuals' behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit "score" is a myth as there is "no score that dictates citizen's place in society".[7] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 27 points 2 years ago* (3 children) I have some sources on the child and slave labor, if that helps. https://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/genocide-of-the-uyghurs-in-western-china/china-tibet-and-the-uyghurs https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton This last one is ‘Western propaganda’ but is very helpful in identifying the types of products to avoid. It’s near impossible in the US, unless you make your own textiles/clothes or only buy second-hand. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago (2 children) Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever. The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide). The third link has Zenz again as its main source. Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here's a megathread: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dop@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (2 children) I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don't spread misinformation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (2 children) No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications. For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own. Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago It's funny that we're arguing this on a platform that's legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I? permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children) There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (17 children) No nation has "free and open internet" in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments load more comments (17 replies) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago (2 children) Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever. The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide). The third link has Zenz again as its main source. Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here's a megathread: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Dop@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (2 children) I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don't spread misinformation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies) [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (2 children) No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications. For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own. Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago It's funny that we're arguing this on a platform that's legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I? permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children) There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (17 children) No nation has "free and open internet" in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments load more comments (17 replies)
[–] Dop@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (2 children) I appreciate a someone making the effort to debunk but your megathread is absolute garbage, I checked a couple links, got redirected toward twitter and quora threads, so ty but don't spread misinformation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments load more comments (2 replies)
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (2 children) No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications. For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own. Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago It's funny that we're arguing this on a platform that's legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I? permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children) There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies) [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (17 children) No nation has "free and open internet" in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments load more comments (17 replies)
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 years ago* (2 children) No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications. For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own. Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago It's funny that we're arguing this on a platform that's legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I? permalink fedilink source parent [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children) There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies)
[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago It's funny that we're arguing this on a platform that's legal in the US, and banned in China. Is lemmy.ml a US surveillance op too? Are you? Am I? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children) There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies)
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation. There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sakodak@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago (3 children) US corporations are the US government. They outright own it. US media is state media with extra steps. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children) dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments load more comments (7 replies)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 years ago (17 children) No nation has "free and open internet" in reality. Some are just more open about their biases while others try to obfuscate how they censor. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 17 child comments load more comments (17 replies)
[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's too bad the people of China aren't allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago 🤣 https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-internet-is-flooded-with-wikipedia-edits-made-by-government-and-big-oil/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's too bad the people of China aren't allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago 🤣 https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-internet-is-flooded-with-wikipedia-edits-made-by-government-and-big-oil/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago 🤣 https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-internet-is-flooded-with-wikipedia-edits-made-by-government-and-big-oil/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to. As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it's largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017. http://hongkongfp.com/2018/11/20/filipinos-flood-social-media-winnie-pooh-memes-xi-jinping-visits-manila/ https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655 https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/11/21/1870392/winning-pooh-images-flood-social-media-xi-jinping-arrives permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (24 children) It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you're saying. What has come from that isn't a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago (3 children) The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship. First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started. I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (23 replies) [–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago* (2 children) Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it "good enough?" It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting. Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments. These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there's no such thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] uranibaba@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says "Social credit. We don't have this at all" and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a "social credit score", and gave more details about how it's administered. Basically, the headline is "no, it's not at all what you've heard", and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I'm not sure your point about "there's no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere" is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan "whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere." If that's not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that's not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that's exactly how it works doesn't serve your argument. And "well but the West is totally lying, maaan" isn't proof; it's an unverified claim by a random internet commenter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child) To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017. http://hongkongfp.com/2018/11/20/filipinos-flood-social-media-winnie-pooh-memes-xi-jinping-visits-manila/ https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655 https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/11/21/1870392/winning-pooh-images-flood-social-media-xi-jinping-arrives permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (24 children) It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you're saying. What has come from that isn't a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago (3 children) The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship. First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started. I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (23 replies)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (24 children) It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you're saying. What has come from that isn't a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 25 child comments replies: [–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago (3 children) The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship. First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started. I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (23 replies)
[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 9 points 2 years ago (3 children) The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship. First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started. I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 years ago Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago* (2 children) Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it "good enough?" It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting. Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments. These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there's no such thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] uranibaba@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says "Social credit. We don't have this at all" and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a "social credit score", and gave more details about how it's administered. Basically, the headline is "no, it's not at all what you've heard", and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I'm not sure your point about "there's no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere" is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan "whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere." If that's not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that's not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that's exactly how it works doesn't serve your argument. And "well but the West is totally lying, maaan" isn't proof; it's an unverified claim by a random internet commenter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there's no such thing. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] uranibaba@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says "Social credit. We don't have this at all" and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies) [–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a "social credit score", and gave more details about how it's administered. Basically, the headline is "no, it's not at all what you've heard", and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I'm not sure your point about "there's no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere" is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan "whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere." If that's not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that's not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that's exactly how it works doesn't serve your argument. And "well but the West is totally lying, maaan" isn't proof; it's an unverified claim by a random internet commenter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] uranibaba@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says "Social credit. We don't have this at all" and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) They very much have a credit score that is not anywhere comparable to the Orwellian depiction in western media, and furthermore the credit system is largely for businesses, not individuals. The western depiction simply does not exist. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments load more comments (3 replies)
[–] spencerwi@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a "social credit score", and gave more details about how it's administered. Basically, the headline is "no, it's not at all what you've heard", and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I'm not sure your point about "there's no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere" is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan "whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere." If that's not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that's not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that's exactly how it works doesn't serve your argument. And "well but the West is totally lying, maaan" isn't proof; it's an unverified claim by a random internet commenter. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize. permalink fedilink source parent