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[+] 63 points 2 years ago (7 children)
  • [–] 46 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System

    In the Wikipedia article itself:

    There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit "score" based on individuals' behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit "score" is a myth as there is "no score that dictates citizen's place in society".[7]

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  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    I have some sources on the child and slave labor, if that helps.

    https://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/genocide-of-the-uyghurs-in-western-china/china-tibet-and-the-uyghurs

    https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/nz0g306v8c/china-tainted-cotton

    This last one is ‘Western propaganda’ but is very helpful in identifying the types of products to avoid. It’s near impossible in the US, unless you make your own textiles/clothes or only buy second-hand.

    https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ilab/reports/child-labor/list-of-goods-print

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Your first link is a few paragraphs with no sources whatsoever.

    The second one sources Human Rights Watch, who got bodied even on reddit the last time they tried to spread this line. They pretty much source only from Zenz (a far-right anti-semitic christian evangelical who thinks birth conrtrol is genocide).

    The third link has Zenz again as its main source.

    Its so exhausting to have to debunk the same recycled sources over and over, so here's a megathread:

    https://dessalines.github.io/essays/socialism_faq.html#whats-going-on-with-the-uyghurs

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    So all of the nations with a free and open internet are pushing propaganda, and we should just take the firewalled nation of oppressively regulated speech at their word?

    crazy

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    No nation should allow the US surveillance arms like Facebook, twitter, instagram, youtube and reddit to operate within their borders. These are US controlled entities that serve to push pro-US foreign policy, and hoover up all global communications.

    For example, the most popular social media platform in India, is facebook. The US controls the main communication platform of a country with a population much larger than its own.

    Countries should realize what a dangerous threat it is to have US companies control your social media.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.

    No one is forcing you to use US corporate social media. Everyone needs internet access.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    There is a difference between a corporation manipulating their own service and a government controlling the entire internet for the nation.

    There really isn't a fundamental difference here. US capitalists run the country, control its media, and stand above it's political system. It's military/defense apparatus, and police function as their hired goons.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (7 children)

    dude, the CIA controls everything. Probably since at least the 60's. Use your brain. Why do you think the most far right and "far left" media agree on the SAME THINGS when it comes to US foreign policy? US media is JUST as free as Chinese media, which is not at all. Read about the twitter leaks. Feds just emailed them to take shit down and they did it.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to.

    As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it's largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago* (24 children)

    It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you're saying. What has come from that isn't a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship.

    First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started.

    I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    Did you read your own link, or just grab the headline from a google search and call it "good enough?"

    It’s true that, building on earlier initiatives, China’s State Council published a road map in 2014 to establish a far-reaching “social credit” system by 2020. The concept of social credit (shehui xinyong) is not defined in the increasing array of national documents governing the system, but its essence is compliance with legally prescribed social and economic obligations and performing contractual commitments. Composed of a patchwork of diverse information collection and publicity systems established by various state authorities at different levels of government, the system’s main goal is to improve governance and market order in a country still beset by rampant fraud and counterfeiting.

    Under the system, government agencies compile and share across departments, regions, and sectors, and with the public, data on compliance with specified industry or sectoral laws, regulations, and agreements by individuals, companies, social organizations, government departments, and the judiciary. Serious offenders may be placed on blacklists published on an integrated national platform called Credit China and subjected to a range of government-imposed inconveniences and exclusions. These are often enforced by multiple agencies pursuant to joint punishment agreements covering such sectors as taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments.

    These punishments are intended to incentivize legal and regulatory compliance under the often-repeated slogan of “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.” Conversely, “red lists” of the trustworthy are also published and accessed nationally through Credit China.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Yes, I have. Have you read beyond that point? The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there's no such thing.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It's besides the point how it is talked about. The Second screenshot literally says "Social credit. We don't have this at all" and your link very much proves that they do. Therefore propaganda in my eyes.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a "social credit score", and gave more details about how it's administered.

    Basically, the headline is "no, it's not at all what you've heard", and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I'm not sure your point about "there's no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere" is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan "whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere."

    If that's not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that's not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that's exactly how it works doesn't serve your argument. And "well but the West is totally lying, maaan" isn't proof; it's an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.

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