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[–] 94 points 2 years ago (4 children)

There’s this great youtoobs channel I watch a lot. It’s this attorney who shows you how to select smoked salmon in the supermarket.

It’s the Lox Picking Lawyer.

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    [+] 77 points 2 years ago (4 children)
  • [–] 77 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    It's not a loan word, it's the word for salmon in the oldest constructable ancestor of English.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 years ago

    According to etymonline,

    Lax. Noun. "salmon," from Old English leax (see lox). Cognate with Middle Dutch lacks, German Lachs, Danish laks, etc.; according to OED the English word was obsolete except in the north and Scotland from 17c., reintroduced in reference to Scottish or Norwegian salmon.

    It's weird in that lax died ~400 years ago, then was borrowed back ~100 years ago into American English from Yiddish-speaking immigrants.

    It's a weird loanword in that it was a loaned obsolete word that underwent some semantic narrowing in the loan.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    Exactly it predates the English language, lots of words do.

    The English language is basically a neglected toddler by linguistic standards, it was left alone in a closet to fend for itself

    Edit:

    Also funny you just said it's the word for salmon...

    Instead of you know, salmon...

    Laks just meant "fish" in the proto languages.

    Which is why OPs link doesn't mention the spelling not changing, and why it's wrong about the meaning not changing too

    Going from "any type of fish, living or dead" to "specific type of fish when prepared by smoking"

    Seems like a pretty significant change in meaning to me

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    I think by that logic almost all words in every language predate the language they are part of. Like saying that our noses aren't really human because noses predate humans.

    a neglected toddler

    What do you mean by this?

    As island-based languages go English is probably the least isolated in history. It's Germanic relatives are all nearby. Britain has had extensive links to the continent for the entire history of English and well before. It's an international language and has been for hundreds of years.

    English also isn't that weird just because it got a large infusion of (pretty closely related) Norman words after 1066. Korean, Japanese and Vietnamese all have over half their lexical items from Chinese, an unrelated language.

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  • [–] 49 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Omfg why do we bother calling it smoked salmon when lox is much cooler?

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] [S] 9 points 2 years ago

    Ya for sure it’s a difference. Both are awesome. I’m an east coast Jew, obviously raised in bagels and lox. But now I live on the west coast where Jews are rare and strange. People here don’t know words like “lox” or “shmear”, so sometimes I just call it smoked salmon the way you might call latkes “potato pancakes”.

    But now my new brother in law manages a salmon hatchery and gives us jars of smoked salmon he makes and it’s so unbelievably good. Is lox cured instead of smoked? Idk. Both great. It’s splitting hairs really, isn’t it? Salmon is so good!

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  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Lox means specifically smoked salmon? Odd. "Lax" is the swedish word for just "salmon". I really thought lox was just another word for salmon.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    The German word for salmon is "Lachs" but it's pronounced "Lax". I wonder who had the word first

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    [–] 19 points 2 years ago* (7 children)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but English didn't exist 8000 years ago. Olde English was synthesized from numerous Germanic dialects in the 5th century, which was about 1600 years ago. Not only that, but "lox" isn't an English word, it's Yiddish, and it wasn't introduced into the English speaking world until 1934 when a wave of Jewish immigrants moved to Western Europe and North America.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    Yes, English didn't exist 8000 years ago. Instead, there was a language called Proto-Indoeuropean spoken on the steppes of Ukraine. Just like how Latin spread and local dialects slowly became Spanish, French, Italian, Romanian, etc., PIE spread out and its descendants became Greek, Sanskrit, Russian, Latin, German, etc.

    Part of what happened over time was sound shifts. For example, PIE p morphed into an f in Proto-Germanic. Father and the Latin word pater go back to the same PIE root word, but father exhibits the sound change of p -> f you saw in Germanic languages.

    Similarly, Spanish has a sound change where f changed into h. So the Latin word fabulari (to chat) became hablar in Spanish and falar in Portuguese.

    The point of the article is that the PIE word for salmon, laks, by random chance didn't really morph much in Germanic languages. So you have lax, lox, lachs, etc.

    Interestingly, the Old English word for salmon was leax, and that made its way into Middle English and early Modern English as lax. It died out in favor of the French-derived salmon, and then we borrowed lox back from Yiddish.

    It's like if beef entirely replaced cow, then we borrowed back koe or kuh from Dutch or German.

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    [–] 18 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Liquid Oxygen? Wow I didn't know it was that old.

    disclaimerThis is sarcasm.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    As a native English speaker who'd never heard of this word - TIL x2

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    [–] 13 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    This is cool enough that all Indo-European languages should start calling salmon Lox again.

    With the right strategy and current technology, we should be able to evolve all current Indo-European languages back to a singular language over a thousand years or so. That would unite half the world in language.

    A highly noble goal. We could call it, the Lox plan.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    German already calls it Lachs.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Now that's interesting. The German word for salmon is "Lachs" [laks] which is basically the same as "lox" [lɔks]. The change from the "ɔ" sound to the "a" sound likely has to do with the Great Vowel Shift

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    [–] 10 points 2 years ago (3 children)
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    [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    finally, I understand now, what means first part of my nickname, besides Liquid OXygen

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    I work for a small company owned and run by a Jewish family

    One of their favorite jokes goes like this:

    You can't hold us in a prison cell! We eat lox for breakfast!

    (And we do indeed have bagels and lox brought in regularly)

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    The most important words are the oldest

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    Important words undergo sound changes all the time.

    For example, in Germanic languages, Proto Indoeuropean p sounds consistently morphed into f sounds. So the PIE word pods became Proto Germanic fots became English foot. pəter became fader became father. The preposition per became fur became for.

    Lox is mostly unusual in that it didn't have any major sound changes affect it in Germanic languages.

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    [–] 7 points 2 years ago
    [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    The coolness of this is not lox on me.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    It's also a common abbreviation for liquid oxygen in rocket engineering.

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