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[–] 87 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I had an opportunity to socialize with some young people recently and the one thing that struck me the most was how far ahead the girls were in social skill and maturity.

I don't think this has anything to do with sex difference or nature. I think that girls are simply expected to pay attention to other people and boys aren't.

I don't exempt myself, I was a solipsistic goblin at that age.

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  • [–] 34 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    Maybe. I've always heard that women mature more quickly than men. Certainly women hit puberty earlier. Its very hard to sus out the differences from nature and nurture.

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  • [–] 21 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    The 2 often feed off each other too. E.g. men are slightly stronger than women, on average. Men are then expected to take on the strong protector role, while women are expected to act weak and subservient. This amplifies the original slight difference massively, reinforcing the social stereotype.

    Women seem to have a preference for cooperation, with their ranking within the group mattering most. Men seem to err towards intergroup competition, where your teams ranking matters most. These necessitate different types of social skills, which feeds the stereotype, which feeds the original difference.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    Men being slightly stronger on average than women has a LOT to do with culture.

    When I was a kid, girls weren't even allowed to do the same calisthenics in school. There was severe social opprobrium for women doing strength training, learning martial arts, etc.

    This is one of the things about the patriarchy, the things it enforces are seen as natural. Women are put in clothes that limit their mobility, beauty standards demand frailness, etc.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    It's also an unfortunate fact that testosterone makes it a LOT easier to put on muscle mass. A good chunk of men don't take advantage of it, but the biology still holds. It's also worth noting that men are on average taller than women. Our volume of muscle is often bigger to start with.

    My wife does quite a bit more strength based exercise than I do. The force multiplier on my exercise however means I can easily out power her, when it comes to brute strength.

    It's worth noting however that a lot of the initial strength gain of exercise isn't muscle increase, but better control. Both men and women can increase this, fairly evenly. The difference tells most once that caps out.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago*

    Grew up in a world where girls were only expected to be more mature than boys.

    Nah. Girls tend* (and this is doing the heavyweight championship of this sentence) to be naturally more empathetic from my PoV, which coupled with actually faster develepoment and higher expectation of maturity produces the "mature and empathetic" image of girls. Also noticed back then that girls were more social oriented than guys. Guys got together to do a thing, meanwhile girls were fine just sitting around and talking.

    * Half or more girls I met growing up still escaped this in varying degree, but baseline tendency was still higher than in boys where this was exceptional.

    Although, all in all, it's all based on personal experience so I may be way off the mark.

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    [–] 27 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Emotional intelligence helps with reading emotional climate but is terrible for emotional weather.

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  • [–] 16 points 5 days ago (12 children)

    My ex was a big fan of that phrase, "I can't read minds." I did all the managing of her emotions for her. There definitely can be a lack of communication, but I think the meme rings of "I refuse to empathize with you without you needing to do all the work bridging that gap," but that also might just be my own experience. If I wanted to be heard and understood, I had to explain it like a toddler.

    As an example, "hey love, leaving dirty cookware out to get crusty means it's not available when I want to cook" did not elicit a change in behavior. Neither did the next two times, "hey, you left the pan out again, if you do that it makes it difficult for me when I need to cook." She made excuses each time. When I finally hit my breaking point and spell it out, "it really upsets me when you don't clean up after yourself. please stop doing that! clean your dishes after you use them. I have made it very clear that this behavior upsets me, it hurts me that you keep doing it," I get the classic "I can't read minds," because I didn't explicitly tell her to clean up after herself.

    The same went for eating snacks I purchased for myself, or leaving wet clothes in the washer, or leaving trash out, or not taking the full trash out and instead piling on top of it, etc. If I didn't explicitly say "I need you to do this. Please do this. Do this now," it wouldn't get done, even if I have made it very clear how that behavior makes me feel. When commiserating with friends, it is clear that this isn't just me that has experienced this. "I can't read minds" seems to more often be used by those that cannot empathize or listen to their partners, regardless of gender.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty of examples of those that do not communicate well and expect as it was put, mind reading, but far more often it seems like that phrase is really just a crutch for the emotionally unintelligent. No one should require explicit instructions to empathize with your partner. If my partner is clearly upset by something and I'm not sure what, I ask them, and a good partner will never expect you to know already (unless they've already told you multiple times and you cannot take a hint). Pay attention to what your partners say and make your expectations and desires clear.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 child)

    Is it so hard to just say what you mean the first time though?

    "Hey, please do the dishes. It makes me upset to see them not done and I'm always the one doing them."

    Problem solved.

    Instead the way you said you did it leaves so much open to interpretation "I don't understand why he is all pissed off today I made sure the pan he was upset about not having last time was clean this time!!"

    The you go on to say "make your expectations and desires clear" lol what the fuck.

    God I hate people that do shit like this. Say what you mean. I kind of feel this "use your big words" meme to be completely honest. You would have had to say what you wanted one time instead of being cryptic about this pan or that glass or whatever while you slowly get more and more pissed each time and she's slowly wondering what the fuck she is doing wrong each time.

    The always having to tell her to do ANY chores is ridiculous but that would also have been another full sentence to put together and maybe make a list with check marks on it or something idk man but coming home and being like "I can't use this pan when its crusty like this" isn't communicating very well. Say what you mean to people the first time.

    We all work full time jobs we shouldn't have to come home and figure out interpretive dance or whatever. Just say what you mean.

    I've had managers and significant others like this and I truly don't understand it at all. We have perfected the use if words for communication for over 5000 years now. Use the words.

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

    But I did. If I have clearly explained "this is your action. this is the consequence of that action," and they have acknowledged that, then there shouldn't be a need to go on at length. I communicated exactly what the issue was and how it affects me. She acknowledged that. Behavior didn't change. Why should I need to do all the work for them? She is an adult. She does not need me to be her mom. She shouldn't need me to treat her like a child, and should be able to pick up after herself, especially when she's acknowledged the consequences of not doing so.

    I did say what I mean. I'm not her mother. I don't know why you're jumping in to defend someone who is incapable of basic housekeeping unless specifically instructed each time. That is an unreasonable expectation to have. No one should need to be given instruction to take care of a shared space, especially when the consequences of not doing so aren't just expressed by the other party, but acknowledged.

    "Say what you mean" is so insulting, when there is no clearer boundary than "x behavior hurts me." No other partner I have had has needed me to tell them to do the dishes or pick up after themselves after I've made it clear how it makes me feel.

    Again, I shouldn't need to mother my partner. They're an adult. Expecting me to clearly tell them to do every basic chore is insulting. You're pushing the entire mental load onto me, which is both unfair and immature. Additionally, both people in this situation were women.

    edit: The implications that I'm incapable of communicating when I've given every indication of communicating with clear "when x, I feel y" statements, the gold standard of communication, are insulting. I have had absolutely no issues communicating with my partners before or since. The issue wasn't a lack of communication, it was my partner's choice to weaponize her incompetence. She never "forgot" when it affected her, only when it affected me. She knew, very clearly, that she was hurting me. If I said "it hurts when you slap me. When you slap me, it makes me sad," and you slapped me right afterwards, "well you didn't tell me to stop" wouldn't fly as an excuse. I set a boundary. She crossed it. Repeatedly.

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    [–] 16 points 6 days ago (11 children)

    A good therapist can feel like they're reading your mind.

    Emotional intelligence isn't the only skill involved in that, still a big part of it.

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    [–] 10 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    Wow, everybody in the comments of this post sucks.

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