Is it safe?

I know estradiol pills fuck liver so I can fix this problem by switching to injections but I wonder if this is the case with progesterone?

I can't do the buffing stuff every night, sorry lol.

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[–] 11 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Take all the oral versus rectal route stuff with a grain of salt. The studies thus far have been mostly done on cis women and were measuring blood levels directly, not results. The way that progesterone interacts with stuff like breast development is not super well understood either, nor are the levels at which good development can be expected. I read a study fairly recently that suggested that there was not a large difference in satisfaction rates for patients taking it orally versus rectally, both reported positive side effects. Empirically it is hard to accurately measure things like this.

I have tanner stage 5 breasts, and developed them to that stage before taking progesterone. My friend who takes hers rectally, and has for a couple years now, has tanner stage 4 breasts. Its anecdotal but I think is a good example of progesterone being less well understood.

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  • I did a reading of the pharmokokinetics article on prog a while back and it is indeed very complicated. I recommend people read up on it. I used transdermal prog for a while and it seems where you apply affects whether or not it actually gets into the blood, which is not the case for estradiol. But there's limited data for now

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 days ago

    Thanks. I was on pills until today, do you think starting EEn soon can make changes?

    I was also exhausted tired and depressed all the time so pills are really shitty not working imo.

    I'm hopeful kinda.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Very much how I've been feeling about that conversation/topic. I would imagine there are many other factors that affect breast growth, and it's unfortunately kind of impossible to know if someone's results would have been different had they administered a different route. Genetics, age, GH levels, nutrition, etc feel like they would be the dominant factors for growth...buuut I can only assume really 🤷‍♀️ maybe libido differences could be documented one way or another. I'd be interested to know if someone who had been on hrt for a few years had introduced prog and documented any changes to libido when taking different ways.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    oral prog long-term is safe, the main problem with is a dht backdoor, thru 5a reductase, BUTT also thru 5a reductase u will get neurosteroid - allopregnanolone, which can give mental side effects, since first-pass in liver will do a lot production to it, u want be sedated? u can try that, and huh thru liver the prog levels itself are also would be low, and lol progesterone itself can act as neurosteroid directly... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone#Biological_activity

    im very sensitive to any CNS shit, and i feel a lot the mental effects of progesterone, it rly rly did good things, cuz i take it rectally, maybe it only one med which helped me a lot without tolerance in 4 days

    ALSO!!!! if u take oral prog, especially a lot, check interactions with your meds especially psych ones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone_(medication)#Interactions

    and yuh allopregnanolone producion can be numbed with finasteride and dutasteride(!!!, halflife 4–5 weeks, if u get sick on it, probably for long)

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    You can inject progesterone! Some suppliers sell estradiol and progesterone combined in a single vial.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    I’m very interested in this. Any chance you have additional info on the options?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Isn't this how you become paralyzed?

    Or was it a pill that caused it, can't remember now?

    There was a "all in one" pill a Turkish trans woman got and became paralyzed in Türkiye. You can find it on pubmed.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    No. It's a very common injection in some parts of the world. Bioidentical prog and e won't paralyze anyone

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Where to find 2-in-1 versions?

    DIY?

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  • [–] 7 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Estradiol pills are processed in the liver. If you take them sublingually they're mostly not. You absorb more and it has a shorter half life, so may need to be dosed differently. Injections avoid the liver too.

    The main concern I have heard about oral progesterone is that its much less effective that way. I don't think liver health is a major concern for oral progesterone. I'm getting HRT through my doctor, and I picked them very carefully to make sure I had one who was knowledgeable, and they've prescribed me oral progesterone. So it's probably fine.

    If there are liver concerns I would like to know about it too!

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    My test results post orchi:

    8mg e2 oral 200mg prometrium oral

    Estradiol: 503 pmol/L

    Progesterone: 6.8 nmol/L

    Testosterone: 0.90 nmol/L

    Good?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    What's all this about estradiol pills? I've been taking them for 6 years, should I be worried?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 days ago* (2 children)

    Yes, you should:

    pghrt.diy

    Pills are NOT efficient, and if u're smoking then they won't work. EEn injections are the gold standard. I even heard from some girls who got bigger tits after starting injections.

    I'm excited about injections.

    Any HRT is better than no HRT though, u didn't waste your time or something. DW.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    There's no data that indicates that injections are better for breast size. I've seen people switch from injections to other routes and claim they got growth from doing so, and I therefore doubt it's about one route giving better results than any other.

    Injections are very practical however and bypass the liver so I do recommend them because of that

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (2 children)

    Damn, I still don't know what anyone's talking about with the liver pill thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Hey Grail, yeah this is an important think to be aware of. When You take pills orally they are processed through the liver, this puts strain on it. The same would be true if You took paracetamol every single day. It's a small amount of stress but it can build up and lead to reduced liver function. This is why we keep an eye on liver function during blood testing for hrt. Basically it means Your liver is always working hard to remove the stuff You're putting into your body.

    If you use gel or injectables or even sublingual pills, it bypasses Your digestive system and liver and goes straight into the blood where it can be used by Your body. There is no long term deleterious effect on Your liver that way. After 6 years on pills I think it might be sensible for You to consider shifting intake method. If You have a doctor supervising Your treatment You could talk with them about it.

    At the very least maybe get some liver function tests if You have that option available.

    I don't think there's any reason for You to panic, I know plenty of girls that have been on oral E for years. The problems with liver function take a very long time to build up. This is really about the effects after 10, 20, 30+ years that we're trying to avoid.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    when you swallow anything, it goes in your intestines, and the blood stream absorbs it and leads directly to the liver before it goes anywhere else. so, all the hormones pass through the liver first before going anywhere else. that's why people say that it hits the liver harder. while if you take them from a needle in the arm, then it doesn't go directly to the liver.

    but i'm no expert on how this actually affects the liver etc. could be that it plays no big role anyways. i'm not expert here.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child)

    Hormones often become far less efficient when swallowed due to the processes they undergo before going out to the rest of your body. With estradiol the difference is big because a lot of the estradiol is turned into estriol which is both less efficient as an estrogen and linked to breast cancer

    It's the same with progesterone but I don't know that any of the metabolites are linked to anything bad. It's why the experience of oral vs rectal administration of progesterone is so different

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  • in fact if i have to guess, i'd say that it makes no difference. all the hormones pass through the liver eventually (probably multiple times) until they decay. so, in 5 hours they maybe pass through the liver 100 times? idk. so it's 101 times if you swallow orally vs. 100 times if you take needle, almost same thing.

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