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[–] 4 points 3 years ago

I was gonna just do the one but they do say it's best to pay it forward when you can.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago

    Loop continues until entire human population tied to track and there's nobody left to pass the switch to. kill the scapegoat on round one and done

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago

    Oh, 100%. Fuck the next generation, I mean person.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    Welcome to climate policy.

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    [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    What if I want to be the person down the line?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    Double it. Then the other guy will double it, and so on. Infinite loop = no deaths.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children)

    Continuously double it so that the trolley has as much room as it needs to brake to a complete halt, therefore killing 0 people.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (4 children)

    Thats actually a really good dilemma if you think about it. Like if everyone doubles it you basically don’t kill anyone. But you’ll always risk that there’s some psycho who likes killing and then you will have killed more. And if these choices continue endlessly you will eventually find someone like this. So killing immediately should be the right thing to do.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    This is really the only answer. The only thing that makes it "hard" is having to face the brutality of moral calculus

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago* (1 child)

    Now, what if you’re not the first person on the chain? What if you’re the second one. Or the n one? What now? Would you kill two or n knowing that the person before you spared them?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    The thing to do is kill now even if it's thousands. Because it's only going to get worse.

    The best time to kill was the first trolly. The second best time to kill is now.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Yes, but it also kinda depends on what happens at and after junction 34, from which point on more than the entire population of earth is at stake.

    If anything, this shows how ludicrously fast exponentials grow. At the start of the line it seems like there will be so many decisions to be made down the line, so there must be a psycho in there somewhere, right? But (assuming the game just ends after junction 34) you're actually just one of 34 people, and the chance of getting a psycho are virtually 0.

    Very interesting one!

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    It's not that interesting. If you rephrase the question as a choice between a good option and a less good one, it's still barely even a choice.

    "Would you rather have only one (or, say, trillions) die now, or would you like to allow *at a minimum *twice that many people die the second we talk to a sadist?"

    If you can't choose the smaller number, all it means is that you lack moral strength - or the test proctor has put someone you know on the tracks, which is cheating. A highly principled person might struggle if choosing between their daughter and one other person. If it's my kid versus a billion? That's not a choice, that's just needless torture. Any good person would sacrifice their kid to save a billion lives. I take that as an axiom, because anything else is patently insane.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

    Kill fewer people now is obviously the right answer, and not very interesting.

    What is interesting is that the game breaks already at junction 34, which is unexpectedly low.

    So a more interesting dilemma would have been "would you kill n people now or double it and pass it on, knowing the next person faces the same dilemma, but once all humanity is at stake and the lever is not pulled, the game ends.". Because that would involve first of all figuring out that the game actually only involves 34 decisions, and then the dilemma becomes "do I trust the next 33-n people not to be psychos, or do I limit the damage now?". Even more interestingly "limiting the damage now" makes you the "psycho" in that sense...

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    Some day it reaches a person that thinks...

    Well, 4 billion people less is better than someone being able to wipe out humanity...

    (it would also solve many problems lol)

    (and that point would be after 32 people had the choice...)

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago*

    Meanwhile Thanos is on the third switch and very frustrated. (He would double it and pass it to the next person - there's no point in killing four people when there's a chance that the second-to-last guy might kill half of humanity.)

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago*

    Eventually there might also be a track with no people on it so postponing the dilemma becomes much better than at least 1 death. But there is no way of knowing what the future dilemma might be.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Lever half way and it crashes.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    Attempting to subvert the thought experiment only makes things worse. The trolley is full of child prodigies, all future geniuses that will cure cancer and solve the world's problems. By sticking the lever halfway you kill all of them. The only way to save the child prodigies is to choose, left or right.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    You couldn't even bother putting in adult scientists that have already helped the world. It's a hypothetical scenario, you know, you can put in anyone you want. So I'm putting the child prodigies to a test by having the save themselves from the half-lever. Should be relatively easy for them.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    this is not a purely theoretical question. in practice, autonomous vehicles face exactly this dilemma. or rather the manufacturers of the vehicles who have to set the specifications

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    I forget where it was from but years ago I found an online survey on autonomous cars and their decision making from a university. It was all about deciding to swerve or not in a collision. All kinds of difficult encounters like do you hit the barrier and kill the passenger or swerve and kill the old lady? Do you hit thin person or serve and hit the heavier person?

    I've never seen a survey drill down into biases quite so deeply.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You gotta double it until it overflows to negatives, then you end up reviving billions of people!

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children)

    You would need a crazy low probability of a lunatic or a mass murderer being down the line to justify not to kill one person

    Edit: Sum(2^n (1-p)^(n-1) p) ~ Sum(2^n p) for p small. So you'd need a p= (2×2^32 -2) ~ 1/(8 billion) chance of catching a psycho for expected values to be equal. I.e. there is only a single person tops who would decide to kill all on earth.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    You don't even need a lunatic or mass murderer. As you say, the logical choice is to kill one person. For the next person, the logical choice is to kill two people, and so on.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    Well what about the fact that after 34 people the entire population is tied to the tracks. What are the chances that one person out of 35 wants to destroy humanity?

    Also thing the entire human population to the tracks is going to cause some major logistical problems, how are you going to feed them all?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    Oh come on. A trolley is not going to have the momentum to kill that many people nor would the machinery make it through. The gears and whatnot would be totally gummed up after like 20 or so people.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Also interesting: What would you choose here if you were an evil psychopath? (Asking for an acquaintance.)

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago

    What does "double it" mean? Double what?

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