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[–] 87 points 2 years ago (14 children)

The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It's mind blowing.

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  • [–] 51 points 2 years ago (13 children)

    It's not supporting Russia to be critical of one-sided narratives or to call for peace for the sake of minimizing loss of life.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Russia is welcome to GTFO at any time.

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  • [–] 42 points 2 years ago* (13 children)

    The war was already going on before Russia sent troops in.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    And that makes it okay for them to escalate it, how?

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Ukraine escalated by violating the ceasefire. Russia escalated further by sending in troops. I didn't say it's "okay," but the blame isn't just on their side.

    If Russia wanted to ensure the safety of the people of Donbas (which is a big if tbf), what should they have done differently, at any point leading up to the conflict? Because I'd like to condemn Russian escalation, but it's a little hard for me to do so if I don't have an answer to that question.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Ukraine escalated by violating the ceasefire.

    Which one(s)? There were so many from 2014 onwards that I lost track. I'm always skeptical anytime one side gets all the blame for violating a ceasefire.

    If Russia wanted to ensure the safety of the people of Donbas (which is a big if tbf), what should they have done differently, at any point leading up to the conflict?

    If it really is about the people of Donbas and not annexing the land itself, they could have done what every country is supposed to do when the safety of people in a region is jeopardized – open their borders to refugees and asylum seekers. It would piss off Ukraine, but they could have just been like "Come across the border and we'll set you up with a Russian passport".

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (40 children)

    Which one(s)? There were so many from 2014 onwards that I lost track. I'm always skeptical anytime one side gets all the blame for violating a ceasefire.

    Minsk II was the one I was referring to, but it's a fair point.

    If it really is about the people of Donbas and not annexing the land itself, they could have done what every country is supposed to do when the safety of people in a region is jeopardized – open their borders to refugees and asylum seekers. It would piss off Ukraine, but they could have just been like "Come across the border and we'll set you up with a Russian passport".

    Ok, let me rephrase that then. Do you believe that the people have Donbas have a right to self-determination and representation in government, and that that right would include having some possible roadmap to joining Russia, or should they be forced to either go along with whatever the new government wanted or abandon their homes and flee the country? Because I think that a lot of this mess could've be avoided if Ukraine had simply given them a referendum, but instead they banned opposition parties, which says to me that they knew how the people there would vote.

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  • [–] 35 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    Get out of your bubble. The majority of the world supports Russia. It's an uncommon view in Europe/USA, but common everywhere else.

    Also, being anti NATO expansion doesn't mean you support Russia. That is a reductive world view.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Regardless of how many despots find Putin's approach appealing, it remains fundamentally wrong.

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