-103
Restraint (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 8 points 2 years ago (4 children)

what is this about? are different lemmy instances having beef?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Mostly people who defend far-right aggression and pretend their stances are "leftist" getting upset when they get called out on their bullshit.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Are the "far-right agression" defenders in the room right now? What imaginary enemy have you concocted?

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Are you saying there aren't people who defend aggressive actions by far-right politicians? That there aren't people who defend Netanyahu, Putin and Trump?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    There's nobody defending Netanyahu, Putin, and Trump, and claiming to be Leftist.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Are you saying there's nobody who defends all three and claims to be a leftist? Because that I'd say I've never seen. But I've certainly seen various accounts claiming to be leftists and defending one or two of them.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    What do you consider "defending?" No Leftist I have ever seen likes Putin, Trump, or Netanyahu, which means either you have an interesting idea of what "defending" means or you are yet another "left" anticommunist.

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  • [+] -1 points 2 years ago (2 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The Communists built Lemmy, there are going to be Communists on Lemmy.

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  • [+] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm fine with communists. My economical political views could be considered communist, too

    Calling Communists "tankies" makes me doubt this.

    But tankies defending russian wars of aggression, relativizing Stalin and labeling every political view they don't like as liberals is just annoying.

    Can you provide specific examples?

    And while not every user on hexbear or lemmy.ee is a tankie, most tankies you see are on these instances.

    What is a "tankie" to you? All Marxist-Leninists? Defenders of AES?

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  • [+] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Where did I do this? Why do you just "doubt" based on something that never happened?

    You literally did at the beginning of this comment chain. The idea of a Communist calling other Communists "tankies" is a bit silly.

    You yourself. You said Stalin was no dictator. You lumped conservatives with liberals together.

    Stalin wasn't a dictator according to the CIA itself. If using historical evidence and proper analysis makes me a "tankie," then sure. Conservatives are a type of liberal as well, yes.

    Authoritarians calling themselves communists or socialists. Online, in discussions, this usually is expressed by relativizing oppressive regimes that call themselves communist or socialist, like China or USSR. Like you do.

    The PRC is Socialist, and the USSR was Socialist. I don't see how anyone labeling themselves a Socialist or a Communist could genuinely believe otherwise unless they haven't read theory. Would you mind explaining? According to you, authoritarians are just Communists who have actually read Marx, Engels, Lenin, etc.

    Why do you think I generalize? Projection? In this very thread I made very clear I don't generalize.

    You're all over the place, you denounce AES yet call yourself a Communist, you call Communists tankies, it's all very weird.

    I can make recommendations for a basic theory reading list if you want.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Not just that, but some of the loudest voices do more harm than good for leftism.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Yep, "left" anticommunists are a known phenomena propped up by the US state department.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    I've been wondering if a certain instance (not threads, a whole other discussion) might be more used than other instances, because I've also noticed a marked difference in discussion and tone. I'm well aware a lot of it can be explained away by more users coming and my own understanding becoming more informed. It just seems more cacaphoneous now.

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  • [–] -5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Honestly I'm more worried about those who claim to be communists but do things that both go against the tenets of communism and make other communists look bad. Tankies are a subset of that.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Elaborate, what is this "tankie" and what do they do that "goes against the tenets of Communism."

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  • [–] -5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    How about you start by explaining what you think I mean?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I think you're yet another "left" anticommunist that hasn't read a word of theory, yet thinks reading wikipedia makes them an authority on Marxism. Hope I'm wrong!

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  • [–] -5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Please participate in good faith rather than just making accusations.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I was. I asked you to elaborate, then you deflected and asked what I thought you meant. I answered honestly, it wasn't an accusation, it was what you literally asked for. Please respond in good faith.

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  • [+] -5 points 2 years ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You accused me, with no basis, of being anti-communist rather than answering what you think I mean.

    You being anticommunist is what I thought you meant. Those aren't unrelated.

    I asked what you think I meant because I wanted to know whether you have a different view of this than I do or were simply uninformed. But between your accusations, your deflection, and your condescending responses to me, it's becoming pretty clear to me that you're not willing to discuss this in good faith. But maybe you can prove me wrong.

    I have been acting in good-faith, you have been beating around the bush this entire time.

    Let's start out with an easy one. What do you think I meant by "tankies"?

    Communists, Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, etc. Anyone that actually defends AES and doesn't repeat US State Department Propaganda about the Global South.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    You being anticommunist is what I thought you meant. Those aren’t unrelated.

    So you think that what I meant by "I’m more worried about [some people who] make other communists look bad" was that I'm an anti-communist? That seems highly unlikely. If I were anti-communist, surely I'd love those people precisely because they make communists look bad?

    I have been acting in good-faith

    Literally your first response to me in this entire thread was uncivil condescension.

    Communists, Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, etc. Anyone that actually defends AES and doesn’t repeat US State Department Propaganda about the Global South.

    Yeah that's not what I mean by Tankies, and it's not what most people mean by tankies. Not all marxist-leninists are tankies, for example. In fact I'd go out on a limb and say most aren't. But those who try to sweep under the rug the bad things that nominally-communist states have done are tankies, and they give other communists, other marxists, other marxist-leninists, and indeed all other leftists a bad name. (As an aside, most of the time those things were done by state-capitalist governments, not communist ones.)

    doesn’t repeat US State Department Propaganda about the Global South.

    I'm actually from the Global South. I can promise you the US state department is full of shit. As are most Americans who speak about it, including most American leftists.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    So you think that what I meant by "I’m more worried about [some people who] make other communists look bad" was that I'm an anti-communist? That seems highly unlikely. If I were anti-communist, surely I'd love those people precisely because they make communists look bad?

    "Left" anticommunism is a thing. People who claim to be leftists yet bash leftists.

    Literally your first response to me in this entire thread was uncivil condescension.

    I don't agree.

    Yeah that's not what I mean by Tankies, and it's not what most people mean by tankies. Not all marxist-leninists are tankies, for example. In fact I'd go out on a limb and say most aren't. But those who try to sweep under the rug the bad things that nominally-communist states have done are tankies, and they give other communists, other marxists, other marxist-leninists, and indeed all other leftists a bad name. (As an aside, most of the time those things were done by state-capitalist governments, not communist ones.)

    Mind explaining what "state-capitalist governments" that are supposedly supported by "tankies?" This is where I believe you're going for the "left" anticommunist bit. The whole "no true Communist movements" idea is "left" anticommunism.

    I'm actually from the Global South. I can promise you the US state department is full of shit. As are most Americans who speak about it, including most American leftists.

    Cool, that doesn't mean you can't be a "left" anticommunist.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Literally your first response to me in this entire thread was uncivil condescension.

    Can you please copy and paste what bit seems so to you?

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