339
16GB of RAM Could Be the New Minimum in Apple's Upcoming M4 Macs (www.macrumors.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
209 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 22 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

Let me know how many multiple thousands of dollars it's going to cost for a MAX variant of the chip that can run three external monitors like it's 2008.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [+] 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)
    [deleted]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    Nope. All base Mx Series Macs can only support a single external monitor in addition to their internal one.

    Pro Series are professional enough that Apple deems your work worthy of using two (2) external monitors.

    Max Series are the only ones that have proved their Maximum enough to Apple to let them use 3 monitors.

    It's honestly absurd. And none of them support Display Port's alt mode so they can't daisy chain between monitors and they max out at 3, whereas an equivalent Windows or Linux machine could do 6 over the same Thunderbolt 3 connection.

    Windows and Linux machines also support sub pixel text rendering, so text looks far better on 1080p and 1440p monitors.

    I have to use MacOS for work and while I've come to accept many parts and even like some, their external monitor support is just mind numbingly bad.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What you're describing as "DisplayPort alt mode" is DisplayPort Multi-Stream Transport (MST). Alt mode is the ability to pass native DisplayPort stream(s) via USB-C, which all M chip Macs are capable of. MST is indeed unsupported by M chip hardware, and it's not supported in macOS either way - even the Intel Macs don't support it even though the hardware is capable of it.

    MST is nice for a dual WQHD setup or something (or dual UHD@60 with DisplayPort 1.4), but attempt to drive multiple (very) high resolution and refresh rate displays and you'll be starved for bandwidth very quickly. Daisy-chaining 6 displays might technically be possible with MST, but each of them would need to be set to a fairly low resolution for today's standards. Macs that support more than one external display can support two independent/full DisplayPort 1.4 signals per Thunderbolt port (as per the Thunderbolt 4 spec), so with a proper Thunderbolt hub you can connect two high resolution displays via one port no problem.

    I agree that even base M chips should support at least 3 simultaneous displays (one internal and two external, or 3 external in clamshell mode), and they should add MST support for the convenience to be able to connect to USB-C hubs using MST with two (lower-resolution) monitors, and support proper sub-pixel font anti-aliasing on these low-DPI displays (which macOS was perfectly capable of in the past, but they removed it). Just for the convenience of being able to use any random hub you stumble across and it "just works", not because it's necessarily ideal.

    But your comparison is blown way out of proportion. "Max" Macs support the internal display at full resolution and refresh rate (120 Hz), 3 external 6K 60Hz displays and an additional display via HDMI (4K 144 Hz on recent models). Whatever bandwidth is left per display when daisy-chaining 6 displays to a single Thunderbolt port on a Windows machine, it won't be anywhere near enough to drive all of them at these resolutions.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Agreed, I typed quickly before bed and meant MST not alt mode.

    But otherwise you're just arguing that it's not a big deal because 'you don't need any of these fancy features if you throw out your monitor every three years and buy new thousand dollar ones'.

    For everyone who doesn't want to contribute to massive piles of e-waste, we still have 1080p and 1440p, 60Hz monitors kicking around, and there is no excuse for a Mac to only be able to drive one of them with crappy looking text. It could easily drive 6 within the bandwidth of a 4k, 120Hz signal. Hell it could drive 8 or more if you drop the refresh down to 30.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    I'm not generally arguing it's not a big deal. I'm actually saying the regular M chips should be upgraded to M "Pro" levels of display support. But beyond two external displays, yes, I'm arguing it's not a big deal, simply because >99% of users don't want to use more than two external displays (no matter the resolution). Even if I had 6 old displays lying around I would hardly use more than two of them for a single computer. And as long as I'm not replacing all 6 displays with 6 new displays it doesn't make a difference in terms of e-waste. On the contrary I'd use way more energy driving 6 displays simultaneously.

    I'm 100% with you that MST should be supported, but not because driving six displays (per stream) is something I expect many people to do, but because existing docking solutions often use MST to provide multiple (2) DisplayPort outputs. My workplace has seats with a USB-C docking station connected to two WQHD displays via MST, and they'd all need replacing should we ever switch to MacBooks.

    And sure, they should bring back proper font rendering on lower resolution displays. I personally haven't found it to be too bad, but better would be ... better, obviously. And as it already was a feature many moons ago, it's kind of a no-brainer.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    sub pixel text rendering, so text looks far better on 1080p and 1440p monitors.

    Why would you need that? Buy an Ultra Pro Retina Max Display and please get the stand if you don’t want Apple to go out of business.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [+] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You need to reread my comment where I point out that it's only the Max chips that can drive more than two external monitors.

    And bro, a cursory Google search would also bring up this page from Apple which confirms everything I wrote. A base M3 mac can only drive two monitors if the internal display is closed, i.e. it can only drive one external monitor and one internal.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [+] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
    [deleted]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I guess you could get an eGPU. Probably not cheaper than just giving Apple their pound of flesh, though.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    If apple supported egpus, sure, you could. But they don't so......

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm sure I remember reading about Macs using eGPUs.

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102363

    They supported it on Intel processors.

    looks more

    Oh, their ARM-based machines can't.

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254655917

    No. The Apple Silicon Macs do not currently support external GPUs and Apple has not made any mention of planning to support them in the future.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    Yeah, Apple Silicon giveth, and Apple Silicon taketh away.

    Though, honestly, the number of people who would buy any Apple product and ALSO use an eGPU was probably absolutely miniscule and probably didn't even figure into their design planning.

    The monitor segmentation is fucking stupid, though: just let me plug in as many damn monitors as I want, why do you care at all, Apple?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent