▲ 116 ▼ The economy remains a top concern for US voters ahead of the presidential election (www.scrippsnews.com) submitted 2 years ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world 69 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] echutaa@programming.dev 10 points 2 years ago (3 children) Which inflation rate are you quoting, the true rate including food and fuel or an abstraction that ignores those inelastic categories? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tal@lemmy.today 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I don't know what they're using, but the CPI -- what most people use when referring to "inflation" -- incorporates food, and food inflation over the past year is lower than any other component. So they're not gonna wind up with a lower rate of inflation by excluding food. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echutaa@programming.dev 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) 12 months is a poor timeframe to use for inflation when the most relevant data to consumers today is 2021-2022, and again fuel is required to function in the US which I don’t see in CPI making it a poor indicator for real finances. Really though my point is metrics can be manipulated to sound good or bad but ignoring consumer sentiment is foolish for a politician seeking to be elected by those consumers. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) The most relevant data is the most recent data. I don't care about 2022 data, because I'm no longer paid in 2022 dollars or paying 2022 prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echutaa@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) By that logic we should only read last months data and forget the rest of history, but in reality people have memories and incorporate previous experience in their sentiment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago The most relevant data is the most recent data. You don't have to "forget the rest is history", but it is less relevant than the present. permalink fedilink source parent [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago The CPI, which is the inflation measure most commonly used, includes food and fuel. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Those two numbers you are asking about ("true rate" or the abstraction), for the recent past, pretty much work out to the same value. The CPI excludes some volatile categories, but it's not a trick, in this case. The tactic of bringing up that the CPI excludes some categories, and implying that if it did include them, it would show more inflation than what it does (including the pretty significant spike in 2022)... that actually is a trick, actually a pretty subtle and clever one. To make people think the economy is getting worse, when it's getting better. Edit: I made a top level comment with the guidebook to some of the other tricks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyway, CPI includes both food and fuel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I didn’t actually know that, thank you. Yeah, I know there is some commonly cited “inflation” number that excludes some volatile categories but over the last couple years that actually doesn’t change the bottom line - but yeah, it makes sense that CPI would include all the common consumer goods regardless of volatility. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Core inflation", as the name suggests, excludes some things that are encompassed by CPI. But I think it's cited much less often than CPI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 2 years ago* Honestly I have to admit I’ve become a little bit jaded with hundreds of times looking some particular claim up and learning about things and finding that someone who was swearing some particular thing, was lying; and I’ve gotten lazy about it as a result It’s almost as if all the “Biden ruined the economy” trolls are consistently not being 100% truthful and straightforward about things permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tal@lemmy.today 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I don't know what they're using, but the CPI -- what most people use when referring to "inflation" -- incorporates food, and food inflation over the past year is lower than any other component. So they're not gonna wind up with a lower rate of inflation by excluding food. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echutaa@programming.dev 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) 12 months is a poor timeframe to use for inflation when the most relevant data to consumers today is 2021-2022, and again fuel is required to function in the US which I don’t see in CPI making it a poor indicator for real finances. Really though my point is metrics can be manipulated to sound good or bad but ignoring consumer sentiment is foolish for a politician seeking to be elected by those consumers. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) The most relevant data is the most recent data. I don't care about 2022 data, because I'm no longer paid in 2022 dollars or paying 2022 prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echutaa@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) By that logic we should only read last months data and forget the rest of history, but in reality people have memories and incorporate previous experience in their sentiment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago The most relevant data is the most recent data. You don't have to "forget the rest is history", but it is less relevant than the present. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echutaa@programming.dev 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) 12 months is a poor timeframe to use for inflation when the most relevant data to consumers today is 2021-2022, and again fuel is required to function in the US which I don’t see in CPI making it a poor indicator for real finances. Really though my point is metrics can be manipulated to sound good or bad but ignoring consumer sentiment is foolish for a politician seeking to be elected by those consumers. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) The most relevant data is the most recent data. I don't care about 2022 data, because I'm no longer paid in 2022 dollars or paying 2022 prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echutaa@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) By that logic we should only read last months data and forget the rest of history, but in reality people have memories and incorporate previous experience in their sentiment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago The most relevant data is the most recent data. You don't have to "forget the rest is history", but it is less relevant than the present. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) The most relevant data is the most recent data. I don't care about 2022 data, because I'm no longer paid in 2022 dollars or paying 2022 prices. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] echutaa@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) By that logic we should only read last months data and forget the rest of history, but in reality people have memories and incorporate previous experience in their sentiment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago The most relevant data is the most recent data. You don't have to "forget the rest is history", but it is less relevant than the present. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] echutaa@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) By that logic we should only read last months data and forget the rest of history, but in reality people have memories and incorporate previous experience in their sentiment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago The most relevant data is the most recent data. You don't have to "forget the rest is history", but it is less relevant than the present. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago The most relevant data is the most recent data. You don't have to "forget the rest is history", but it is less relevant than the present. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago The CPI, which is the inflation measure most commonly used, includes food and fuel. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Those two numbers you are asking about ("true rate" or the abstraction), for the recent past, pretty much work out to the same value. The CPI excludes some volatile categories, but it's not a trick, in this case. The tactic of bringing up that the CPI excludes some categories, and implying that if it did include them, it would show more inflation than what it does (including the pretty significant spike in 2022)... that actually is a trick, actually a pretty subtle and clever one. To make people think the economy is getting worse, when it's getting better. Edit: I made a top level comment with the guidebook to some of the other tricks permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyway, CPI includes both food and fuel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I didn’t actually know that, thank you. Yeah, I know there is some commonly cited “inflation” number that excludes some volatile categories but over the last couple years that actually doesn’t change the bottom line - but yeah, it makes sense that CPI would include all the common consumer goods regardless of volatility. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Core inflation", as the name suggests, excludes some things that are encompassed by CPI. But I think it's cited much less often than CPI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 2 years ago* Honestly I have to admit I’ve become a little bit jaded with hundreds of times looking some particular claim up and learning about things and finding that someone who was swearing some particular thing, was lying; and I’ve gotten lazy about it as a result It’s almost as if all the “Biden ruined the economy” trolls are consistently not being 100% truthful and straightforward about things permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Anyway, CPI includes both food and fuel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I didn’t actually know that, thank you. Yeah, I know there is some commonly cited “inflation” number that excludes some volatile categories but over the last couple years that actually doesn’t change the bottom line - but yeah, it makes sense that CPI would include all the common consumer goods regardless of volatility. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Core inflation", as the name suggests, excludes some things that are encompassed by CPI. But I think it's cited much less often than CPI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 2 years ago* Honestly I have to admit I’ve become a little bit jaded with hundreds of times looking some particular claim up and learning about things and finding that someone who was swearing some particular thing, was lying; and I’ve gotten lazy about it as a result It’s almost as if all the “Biden ruined the economy” trolls are consistently not being 100% truthful and straightforward about things permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) I didn’t actually know that, thank you. Yeah, I know there is some commonly cited “inflation” number that excludes some volatile categories but over the last couple years that actually doesn’t change the bottom line - but yeah, it makes sense that CPI would include all the common consumer goods regardless of volatility. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Core inflation", as the name suggests, excludes some things that are encompassed by CPI. But I think it's cited much less often than CPI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 2 years ago* Honestly I have to admit I’ve become a little bit jaded with hundreds of times looking some particular claim up and learning about things and finding that someone who was swearing some particular thing, was lying; and I’ve gotten lazy about it as a result It’s almost as if all the “Biden ruined the economy” trolls are consistently not being 100% truthful and straightforward about things permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) "Core inflation", as the name suggests, excludes some things that are encompassed by CPI. But I think it's cited much less often than CPI. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 2 years ago* Honestly I have to admit I’ve become a little bit jaded with hundreds of times looking some particular claim up and learning about things and finding that someone who was swearing some particular thing, was lying; and I’ve gotten lazy about it as a result It’s almost as if all the “Biden ruined the economy” trolls are consistently not being 100% truthful and straightforward about things permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 3 points 2 years ago* Honestly I have to admit I’ve become a little bit jaded with hundreds of times looking some particular claim up and learning about things and finding that someone who was swearing some particular thing, was lying; and I’ve gotten lazy about it as a result It’s almost as if all the “Biden ruined the economy” trolls are consistently not being 100% truthful and straightforward about things permalink fedilink source parent