80
The discourse around this is frankly unhinged (i.ibb.co)
submitted 2 years ago by [M] to c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone
49 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Even if you disagree with them, Trotskyists are not tankies, simple Marxists aren't tankies, leftists curious and exploring different theories aren't tankies, and ffs anarchists like myself are not tankies.

I feel like "tankie" indicated a very specific worldview at one time, but it's been used lately a lot to mean things like "doesn't agree with nations supporting oppression and inequity up to and including genocide" -- which is drastically at odds with how I've seen the term used in the past, no?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 24 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Why is there a red-scare on Lemmy? I'm admittedly a bit of a suspicious person, but the concern about .ml and the suggestion to defederate seems manufactured. I struggle to believe a bunch of "liberals" on .world are so butthurt by the meanies on .ml that they need to censor them completely. It just seems astroturfed.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago

    Ive personally noticed a really big influx of liberals and liberal bullshit on my feed this past like month or so, and it does seem centered around .world. personally my guess is they someome got an influx of users and theyre all scared of "the radical left" when they discovered .ml

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    I've most recently seen a .ml praising the Taliban in an lgbtq+ community. They're not good people (or their instance draws, tolerates, and encourages those kinds of people). I don't really want that sort of crap spilling into other instances. Alas, programming.dev has not defederated from them. When instances do defederate from them, it's not censorship, it's just not pulling data from their communities or users. Users are welcome to make an account on .ml if they want to see the things on there. Do you understand the difference? If not, I can explain it a little more with some better examples if you let me know the sticking points.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] [S] 11 points 2 years ago

    I get what you're saying, and I've personally experienced some of what you're talking about regarding. ml, but I just want to add that it is a large instance, and I'd not assume that everyone on .ml is bad. I feel the same about the rampant liberalism on .world, but like .ml there are a lot of users who join just because it's a large popular instance without investigating further, so I try to remind myself that it's just a handful of users causing most of the problems. The majority of users on .ml and .world are probably just fine.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Do you understand the difference?

    Yes, but you don't. You're promoting cutting off an entire group of viewpoints all on the flimsy justification that there are some shitty people and trolls on .ml (just block the bad users on your own ffs).

    Defederating will create echo chambers across the fediverse where dissenting voices aren't heard by people who really need to consider a contrary opinion. That's censorship. Sure technically each individual user could go make a new account wherever they please, but that's an extra step and it's easier to police any dissent that trickles in. Don't tell me that's not censorship, I'm not stupid.

    It's nice the fediverse doesn't have centralized control, (otherwise the tankies that built it would have banned everyone), but this place will ultimately produce nothing useful for society since it's devolving into isolated echochambers where people go to get intellectually jerked off when they feel sorry for themselves.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    First, the "some shitty people" thing comes off the same as "not all men" to me. It's enough that it's noticeable.

    Next, censorship:

    https://xkcd.com/1357/

    It's not censorship. (And being wrong isn't the same thing as being stupid.) You can shout all you want, but people don't have to listen to you or amplify your message.

    Other people's servers, communities, etc., aren't automatically yours to do with whatever you want. You're a guest of their hardware, knowledge, and labor. Their instance might serve a purpose that's not providing you with a platform to give people an opinion "they really need to hear" or producing something of value to society, whatever that means. You don't get to decide that. And that's the beauty of federation.

    Anyway, I'm done with this so I'm going to block an individual user as you suggested, so take the time you would have used to write a response and really think about what I've said. Take some time to develop some empathy and be able to see things from viewpoints that aren't your own (maybe you're the one in an echo chamber that needs to consider new opinions). Or don't, I'm not your mother.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    You have the ability to block an instance yourself, and you'll personally not see comments or content made by people from that instance. It's a sad thing to do, I wouldn't do it myself, but you don't have to remove that entire instance for everyone simply because you keep running into shit you don't like yourself.

    Other people’s servers, communities, etc., aren’t automatically yours to do with whatever you want. You’re a guest of their hardware, knowledge, and labor. Their instance might serve a purpose that’s not providing you with a platform to give people an opinion “they really need to hear” or producing something of value to society, whatever that means. You don’t get to decide that. And that’s the beauty of federation.

    I could not agree more. People who abuse the good-will and hospitality of another instance should be banned/

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I’ve most recently seen a .ml praising the Taliban in an lgbtq+ community.

    Do you have a link to that?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    https://lemmy.ml/comment/11454789

    That might not work, here's the thread: https://lemmy.zip/post/16774498

    Here's the comment:

    Taliban is a very admirable group in their fight against a foreing invader. If you want people there to have a mentality that no longer condems individuals for their sexuality, they need to develop economically first. I think its naive to belive that an agricultural country set back in development many years by a foreing invasion will have any kind of progressive mindset. And no ecomic development will occur under invasion and war. So if theres any chance for a progressive mindset to come for the people there in the future, its path starts with the fight taliban did, even if they are against it themselves.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I've seen the most trolls, fascists, and even some Nazis (although I think they were really just trolls) come out of .world. Should we defederate from them too? If not, what's the difference?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    If their moderation can't keep up with it and they become a Nazi bar, then yeah. For me, I have consistent experiences with .ml users in that the vocal ones support oppression of minorities up to and including atrocities, deny historical atrocities in a manner similar to antivaxers/flat earthers/etc, and generally smell like a creepy cult. If those are the users getting noticed, those are the representatives. If their mods condone that, then I don't think the problem is solvable on a per user level.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    I have a .world exclusive alt for when I feel like swimming through a sea of memes and I've seen this tankie drama building since the initial Reddit diaspora. I think it has come to a head thanks to an increasing number of very vocal, very prolific users frequently posting about it.

    They're often upset, sometimes legitimately because a mod was being heavy handed with comment removal, sometimes because they were being an asshole and received a ban. They can't just accept it and move on. No, they must have revenge! Because access to content was removed, everyone must defederate from whichever instance... thereby removing access to all the content themselves. Much of it doesn't make sense. A hefty dallop of idealogical purity á la Exiting the Vampire Castle is in there too.

    Now both the aggrieved and vicariously aggrieved are using "tankie" to describe anyone they don't like, especially actual leftists whose ideas challenge their center to center-right worldviews. With a rallying cry to get behind, a poorly defined common enemy, and a lot of idiotic theatrics, their movement is gaining some traction. I don't even know if it's the majority of .world users, but it's enough where browsing by all has resulted in my feed getting shitted up with lib drama.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent