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Average capitalism enjoyer (media.mas.to)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] 16 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Okay hate on capitalism, fair enough

But equating it to literal slavery like we've had in the past (and still have in some parts of the world) seems problematic to me

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  • [–] 46 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    "Experience demonstrates that there may be a slavery of wages only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery, and that this slavery of wages must go down with the other."

    — Frederick Douglass

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  • [+] -23 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    I suspect that most other actual slaves would not entirely agree with that sentiment

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Your original stance was that it is "problematic" to equate them. Do you think it was problematic for Fredrick Douglass to equate them? If not then your original position has to change.

    We don't have polling on prior chattel slave views on wage slavery, but since you're making a habit of just going with your gut, I'll do the same. I'd wager most prior chattel slaves would've been more than happy to abolish all forms of slavery (including wage slavery).

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  • [+] -17 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Douglass died in 1895 when the standard of living was wildly lower than what it is today, its not an equivalent comparison

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    “Gee, I know I said all that about wage slavery, but who could have predicted iPhones and corn syrup. This is great!”

    Read the shit you’re making claims about.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Why don't you do the same? Your original quote is 137 years old. It is in fact problematic to equate the economic landscape of 2023 to that of 1886. In that quote Douglass is specifically criticizing the treatment of freed slaves, not capitalism in general. (If you want to convince people capitalism is bad, you need to make valid criticisms, not twist old quotes to suit your narrative)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I got the quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery

    Where did you hear that it was specific only to freed slaves?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago

    Your stance still needs to change then. Your issue isn't comparing wage slavery with chattel slavery, it's comparing slavery when the standard of living has improved.

    Now this stance is still problematic, imagine we lost the civil war and the north became socialist, abolishing wage slavery. The south would have chattel slavery and the north would have no slavery. Now imagine the standard of living for chattel slaves vastly improved, and someone then tried to compare "modern day chattel slaves to wage slaves". Your stance would then be this is wildly unfair to modern day chattel slaves because wage slaves had a worse standard of living, a position we both understand is ridiculous.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    Has chattel slavery been replaced with wage slavery for a large population since then? (Actually asking, not rhetorical)

    If living conditions have improved for wage slaves but not for chattel slaves, then I'd imagine they would agree with you.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago

    The whip makes the joke that they are slaves but it's believed it was mostly wage earners build the pyramids. The joke still stands though. I mean it's a fucking mausoleum. Wasting societies resources for a vanity project. The irony of his statement holds either way, as a wage laborer or a slave.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    What literal slavery? The pyramids weren’t built with slave labor.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Slavery is the ownership of a person as property, especially in regards to their labor.

    Having 100% exclusive rights over the fruits of a person's labor, so, a job.

    Slavery typically involves compulsory work with the slave's location of work and residence dictated by the party that holds them in bondage.

    Ever applied for a mortgage?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Having 100% exclusive rights over the fruits of a person’s labor, so, a job.

    But they don't. I can end this arrangement at any point in time.

    Ever applied for a mortgage?

    Yes, and I can't remember anyone forcing me to buy this specific apartment, or preventing me from selling it and moving anywhere else.

    Regardless, my point wasn't that work isn't slavery, my point is that the pyramids weren't built with slave labor.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Never mind the foreign interest campaigns to get Americans to be less productive

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  • [+] 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago

    It’s laughable, really. A country where one person could go to work while the other one could stay at home and still afford a house and a car at least.

    American citizens got reamed by megacorps and some even enjoy it.

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