▲ 776 ▼ Average capitalism enjoyer (media.mas.to) submitted 2 years ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml 145 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 17 points 2 years ago (2 children) At best European nations are social liberal democracies. No European country is a socialist nation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Humanity is flawed, so any of our constructions will be. But democracy is better than any alternative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents permalink fedilink source parent [+] stappern@lemmy.one 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago (2 children) I'm an American. No European country is a socialist nation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] stappern@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Archlinuxforever@lemmy.3cm.us 3 points 2 years ago Fuck off permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] PatFussy@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) China is a socialist democracy too. Dont leave them out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) The only part of China which is at all a democracy is Taiwan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Wholesome democracy Taiwan with their very democratic four decades of martial law and concentration camps permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly permalink fedilink source parent [–] PatFussy@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports. Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) permalink fedilink source parent [+] CompassInspector@invariant-marxism.red -1 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 17 points 2 years ago (2 children) At best European nations are social liberal democracies. No European country is a socialist nation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Humanity is flawed, so any of our constructions will be. But democracy is better than any alternative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents permalink fedilink source parent [+] stappern@lemmy.one 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago (2 children) I'm an American. No European country is a socialist nation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] stappern@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Archlinuxforever@lemmy.3cm.us 3 points 2 years ago Fuck off permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Humanity is flawed, so any of our constructions will be. But democracy is better than any alternative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Humanity is flawed, so any of our constructions will be. But democracy is better than any alternative. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents permalink fedilink source parent
[+] stappern@lemmy.one 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago (2 children) I'm an American. No European country is a socialist nation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] stappern@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Archlinuxforever@lemmy.3cm.us 3 points 2 years ago Fuck off permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago (2 children) I'm an American. No European country is a socialist nation. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] stappern@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Archlinuxforever@lemmy.3cm.us 3 points 2 years ago Fuck off permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] stappern@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Archlinuxforever@lemmy.3cm.us 3 points 2 years ago Fuck off permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago 🙄 permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that's your chief characteristic permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's social liberalism. It's an offshoot of democratic socialism which discarded the goal of transition to socialism for continuing to reform capitalism. It also describes the US New Deal Coalition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PatFussy@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) China is a socialist democracy too. Dont leave them out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) The only part of China which is at all a democracy is Taiwan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Wholesome democracy Taiwan with their very democratic four decades of martial law and concentration camps permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly permalink fedilink source parent [–] PatFussy@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports. Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) permalink fedilink source parent [+] CompassInspector@invariant-marxism.red -1 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) The only part of China which is at all a democracy is Taiwan permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Wholesome democracy Taiwan with their very democratic four decades of martial law and concentration camps permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly permalink fedilink source parent [–] PatFussy@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports. Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Wholesome democracy Taiwan with their very democratic four decades of martial law and concentration camps permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Where people can vote for their leaders of any political bent, while people on the mainland are machine gunned for peacefully protesting to gain the right to do so. Wumau tankie fascists are all the same. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) This is like an octopus ink cloud of liberal and bullshit They still put Chiang "The butcher of Shanghai" Kai Shek on their money to this day. I have some from my time there. Guy was sort of the Zelensky of his day honestly permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PatFussy@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports. Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yeah ok man I don't care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are eight (8) other political parties in the mainland People's Republic of China permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) china is more of a democracy than the US what with its supreme court, senate, and electoral college. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) you might have a more accurate assessment if you got the name of the party right lmao permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) communist party of china is the preferred nomenclature, communist parties are usually "communist" first and whatever nation state second, see see pee is a western invention, maybe to scare boomers by reminding them of the CCCP but i'm not sure we have a memo or leak about why the switch was made. people have mentioned older coverage when china was not the big scary enemy where capitalist media referred to the cpc correctly, but i don't have arbitrary 1990s newspaper articles at hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) presumably how their legislators and executives get their jobs, and who gets to vote would make china a democracy or not? do you know whether they have elections or how they are held? do you know how proposed laws are considered and declined or instituted? or do you just hear "one party state" and make a pile of assumptions? ancient athens, the american representative republic, westminster derived parliamentary systems, and school textbook direct democracy aren't the only forms democracy can take, and frankly those systems (except for the school book one that isn't used to run any countries) all have huge flaws and failings, and could fairly be called "not actually democracies" if we look at public opinion polling compared to what public policy is actually made. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago logically it can't be true that the members of an association ought to govern themselves by the democratic process, and at the same time a majority of the association may properly strip a minority of its primary political rights. That logical statement is only true if you assume that in a democracy, political power is equal. yeah i mean that's the school book scenario and one of the flaws with "simple" democracy that has no mechanism to protect women or queer people from christians, slavevs from their owners etc. the democratic process is more than one thing, especially once your association gets too big and you decide to have representatives. Places like china, viet nam, and cuba are democratic but unless you live in a place that does "democratic centralism" you probably weren't taught about that form in school. I certainly wasn't. that "people's democratic dictatorship" terminology that you seem bothered by is by way of marx's "dictatorship of the bourgeoise" and "dictatorship of the proletariat" and doesn't mean the same thing as "state run by a single dictator". Somebody else can give a better summary but the really bare bones version is that the state is ostensibly putting the interests of the people first and actually controlled by the people, unlike the US which talks a big game about "of the people, by the people, for the people" and then congress never does wildly popular things like legal weed and proper healthcare and does do horridly unpopular things all the time because the rich fucks who own congress benefit. Keep reading, there's a lot of misconceptions to break and good on you for taking the time. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Look at those goalposts fly permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) "moving the goalposts" is an informal fallacy, and sports other than handegg have them, so the analogy being made should be perfectly comprehensible permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) idk take it up with the person who said you were changing standards permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago Taiwan hasn't even been "democratic" (in the sense of "murder all political opponents to the left of Reagan for 40 years and then start letting people vote for the party that did this") for more than a few decades, so even at face value this barely counts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan) permalink fedilink source parent
[+] CompassInspector@invariant-marxism.red -1 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent