▲ 64 ▼ Zed Decoded: Linux when? - Zed Blog (zed.dev) submitted 2 years ago by lemmyreader@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml 28 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) because they used Metal for rendering That in itself is a suspicious choice tbh permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] simple@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) What's suspicious about it...? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Until you actually try to use Vulkan on macOS. Since there’s no native support, you end up needing MoltenVK. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] leopold@lemmy.kde.social 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Is there any particular problem with MoltenVK? As I see it, it's by far the best solution for cross platform software on macOS in need of graphical hardware acceleration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago There’s nothing wrong with the software itself. It works great for what it does. On the other hand, it’s a compatibility layer, which always increases friction between things a little. I think the best use for this is running legacy software. There aren’t many alternatives. Maybe in the future, we’ll see graphics API abstraction libraries like wgpu get used more. This gives developers a single API which can use DirectX on Windows, Vulkan on Linux, or Metal on macOS. This could allow support for entirely new graphics APIs without developers using it having to do anything. Of course, that’s my opinion. People can build their software how they like. permalink fedilink source parent [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago But... they have devs. A lot of software is written for OSX. Zed being one of them. You may not like it, but it works for Apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not the best point to make while you are questioning why they are building Zed. Bot maybe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) No idea, especially since MacOS has limited OpenGL support and no Vulkan support, Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 10 points 2 years ago Yeah, even Asahi has better OpenGL support than real macOS. They make damn sure you have to use Metal to get the most out of it, just like eventually you get caught up in DirectX on Windows whether you want it or not. You can use Vulkan and OpenGL, but the OS really wants to work with Metal/DirectX buffers in the end. I appreciate that the devs care enough to make it really good from the start, because that sets the benchmark. Now the Linux version has to have a similar enough polish to it. In comparison, Atom and VSCode both worked fine on Linux just about day one thanks to Electron, but it was also widely disliked for the poor performance. It's a part of what Zed competes on, performance compared to VSCode. permalink fedilink source parent [–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The other guy mentioned: they already said they were Mac only because they used Metal for rendering And you say: Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac So they're on Mac bc they need Metal, but they picked Metal bc they're on a Mac? It's circular and friggin weird man Not to mention there are cross-platform wrappers that will pick from all three depending on system - some that are very prolific among Rust devs (Zed is coded in Rust) like wgpu, for instance. They could've used wgpu and supported all 3 from the get-go and it would be easier than doing Metal anyway! And so picking just Mac and/or Metal first is suspicious. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago I don't see where your problem comes from. It's really simple: they wanted to target Mac, likely because that's their preferred platform. So obviously they use the best fitting APIs for that purpose. Why would they develop a Linux or Windows application, if what they want is Mac? Nothing suspicious about that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] simple@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) What's suspicious about it...? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Until you actually try to use Vulkan on macOS. Since there’s no native support, you end up needing MoltenVK. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] leopold@lemmy.kde.social 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Is there any particular problem with MoltenVK? As I see it, it's by far the best solution for cross platform software on macOS in need of graphical hardware acceleration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago There’s nothing wrong with the software itself. It works great for what it does. On the other hand, it’s a compatibility layer, which always increases friction between things a little. I think the best use for this is running legacy software. There aren’t many alternatives. Maybe in the future, we’ll see graphics API abstraction libraries like wgpu get used more. This gives developers a single API which can use DirectX on Windows, Vulkan on Linux, or Metal on macOS. This could allow support for entirely new graphics APIs without developers using it having to do anything. Of course, that’s my opinion. People can build their software how they like. permalink fedilink source parent [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago But... they have devs. A lot of software is written for OSX. Zed being one of them. You may not like it, but it works for Apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not the best point to make while you are questioning why they are building Zed. Bot maybe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) No idea, especially since MacOS has limited OpenGL support and no Vulkan support, Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 10 points 2 years ago Yeah, even Asahi has better OpenGL support than real macOS. They make damn sure you have to use Metal to get the most out of it, just like eventually you get caught up in DirectX on Windows whether you want it or not. You can use Vulkan and OpenGL, but the OS really wants to work with Metal/DirectX buffers in the end. I appreciate that the devs care enough to make it really good from the start, because that sets the benchmark. Now the Linux version has to have a similar enough polish to it. In comparison, Atom and VSCode both worked fine on Linux just about day one thanks to Electron, but it was also widely disliked for the poor performance. It's a part of what Zed competes on, performance compared to VSCode. permalink fedilink source parent [–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The other guy mentioned: they already said they were Mac only because they used Metal for rendering And you say: Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac So they're on Mac bc they need Metal, but they picked Metal bc they're on a Mac? It's circular and friggin weird man Not to mention there are cross-platform wrappers that will pick from all three depending on system - some that are very prolific among Rust devs (Zed is coded in Rust) like wgpu, for instance. They could've used wgpu and supported all 3 from the get-go and it would be easier than doing Metal anyway! And so picking just Mac and/or Metal first is suspicious. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago I don't see where your problem comes from. It's really simple: they wanted to target Mac, likely because that's their preferred platform. So obviously they use the best fitting APIs for that purpose. Why would they develop a Linux or Windows application, if what they want is Mac? Nothing suspicious about that. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Until you actually try to use Vulkan on macOS. Since there’s no native support, you end up needing MoltenVK. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] leopold@lemmy.kde.social 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Is there any particular problem with MoltenVK? As I see it, it's by far the best solution for cross platform software on macOS in need of graphical hardware acceleration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago There’s nothing wrong with the software itself. It works great for what it does. On the other hand, it’s a compatibility layer, which always increases friction between things a little. I think the best use for this is running legacy software. There aren’t many alternatives. Maybe in the future, we’ll see graphics API abstraction libraries like wgpu get used more. This gives developers a single API which can use DirectX on Windows, Vulkan on Linux, or Metal on macOS. This could allow support for entirely new graphics APIs without developers using it having to do anything. Of course, that’s my opinion. People can build their software how they like. permalink fedilink source parent [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago But... they have devs. A lot of software is written for OSX. Zed being one of them. You may not like it, but it works for Apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not the best point to make while you are questioning why they are building Zed. Bot maybe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Until you actually try to use Vulkan on macOS. Since there’s no native support, you end up needing MoltenVK. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] leopold@lemmy.kde.social 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Is there any particular problem with MoltenVK? As I see it, it's by far the best solution for cross platform software on macOS in need of graphical hardware acceleration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago There’s nothing wrong with the software itself. It works great for what it does. On the other hand, it’s a compatibility layer, which always increases friction between things a little. I think the best use for this is running legacy software. There aren’t many alternatives. Maybe in the future, we’ll see graphics API abstraction libraries like wgpu get used more. This gives developers a single API which can use DirectX on Windows, Vulkan on Linux, or Metal on macOS. This could allow support for entirely new graphics APIs without developers using it having to do anything. Of course, that’s my opinion. People can build their software how they like. permalink fedilink source parent [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago But... they have devs. A lot of software is written for OSX. Zed being one of them. You may not like it, but it works for Apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not the best point to make while you are questioning why they are building Zed. Bot maybe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] leopold@lemmy.kde.social 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Is there any particular problem with MoltenVK? As I see it, it's by far the best solution for cross platform software on macOS in need of graphical hardware acceleration. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago There’s nothing wrong with the software itself. It works great for what it does. On the other hand, it’s a compatibility layer, which always increases friction between things a little. I think the best use for this is running legacy software. There aren’t many alternatives. Maybe in the future, we’ll see graphics API abstraction libraries like wgpu get used more. This gives developers a single API which can use DirectX on Windows, Vulkan on Linux, or Metal on macOS. This could allow support for entirely new graphics APIs without developers using it having to do anything. Of course, that’s my opinion. People can build their software how they like. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 8Bitz0@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago There’s nothing wrong with the software itself. It works great for what it does. On the other hand, it’s a compatibility layer, which always increases friction between things a little. I think the best use for this is running legacy software. There aren’t many alternatives. Maybe in the future, we’ll see graphics API abstraction libraries like wgpu get used more. This gives developers a single API which can use DirectX on Windows, Vulkan on Linux, or Metal on macOS. This could allow support for entirely new graphics APIs without developers using it having to do anything. Of course, that’s my opinion. People can build their software how they like. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago But... they have devs. A lot of software is written for OSX. Zed being one of them. You may not like it, but it works for Apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not the best point to make while you are questioning why they are building Zed. Bot maybe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aksdb@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago But... they have devs. A lot of software is written for OSX. Zed being one of them. You may not like it, but it works for Apple. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not the best point to make while you are questioning why they are building Zed. Bot maybe? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] EasternLettuce@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago (2 children) No idea, especially since MacOS has limited OpenGL support and no Vulkan support, Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 10 points 2 years ago Yeah, even Asahi has better OpenGL support than real macOS. They make damn sure you have to use Metal to get the most out of it, just like eventually you get caught up in DirectX on Windows whether you want it or not. You can use Vulkan and OpenGL, but the OS really wants to work with Metal/DirectX buffers in the end. I appreciate that the devs care enough to make it really good from the start, because that sets the benchmark. Now the Linux version has to have a similar enough polish to it. In comparison, Atom and VSCode both worked fine on Linux just about day one thanks to Electron, but it was also widely disliked for the poor performance. It's a part of what Zed competes on, performance compared to VSCode. permalink fedilink source parent [–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The other guy mentioned: they already said they were Mac only because they used Metal for rendering And you say: Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac So they're on Mac bc they need Metal, but they picked Metal bc they're on a Mac? It's circular and friggin weird man Not to mention there are cross-platform wrappers that will pick from all three depending on system - some that are very prolific among Rust devs (Zed is coded in Rust) like wgpu, for instance. They could've used wgpu and supported all 3 from the get-go and it would be easier than doing Metal anyway! And so picking just Mac and/or Metal first is suspicious. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago I don't see where your problem comes from. It's really simple: they wanted to target Mac, likely because that's their preferred platform. So obviously they use the best fitting APIs for that purpose. Why would they develop a Linux or Windows application, if what they want is Mac? Nothing suspicious about that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 10 points 2 years ago Yeah, even Asahi has better OpenGL support than real macOS. They make damn sure you have to use Metal to get the most out of it, just like eventually you get caught up in DirectX on Windows whether you want it or not. You can use Vulkan and OpenGL, but the OS really wants to work with Metal/DirectX buffers in the end. I appreciate that the devs care enough to make it really good from the start, because that sets the benchmark. Now the Linux version has to have a similar enough polish to it. In comparison, Atom and VSCode both worked fine on Linux just about day one thanks to Electron, but it was also widely disliked for the poor performance. It's a part of what Zed competes on, performance compared to VSCode. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The other guy mentioned: they already said they were Mac only because they used Metal for rendering And you say: Metal is basically the only graphics API on Mac So they're on Mac bc they need Metal, but they picked Metal bc they're on a Mac? It's circular and friggin weird man Not to mention there are cross-platform wrappers that will pick from all three depending on system - some that are very prolific among Rust devs (Zed is coded in Rust) like wgpu, for instance. They could've used wgpu and supported all 3 from the get-go and it would be easier than doing Metal anyway! And so picking just Mac and/or Metal first is suspicious. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago I don't see where your problem comes from. It's really simple: they wanted to target Mac, likely because that's their preferred platform. So obviously they use the best fitting APIs for that purpose. Why would they develop a Linux or Windows application, if what they want is Mac? Nothing suspicious about that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aksdb@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago I don't see where your problem comes from. It's really simple: they wanted to target Mac, likely because that's their preferred platform. So obviously they use the best fitting APIs for that purpose. Why would they develop a Linux or Windows application, if what they want is Mac? Nothing suspicious about that. permalink fedilink source parent