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Oliver Anthony and the Incoherence of Right-Wing Populism (nymag.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[+] -28 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

That’s kind of what the whole article is spent laying out.

Please, enlighten me with your own thinking. Is it because he's saying some welfare programs are abused while the starving people who actually need help aren't getting it? What do you think of the topics he addresses in the other 98% of the song?

but then whenever it gets close to a political statement, whether about taxes, politicians, or welfare it never says anything a wealthy conservative would argue with.

Is that what your issue is? Lets see, Biden is a wealthy liberal and 50 million democrats voted with him. It's not about what a wealthy conservative or democrat would say, it's about experience. This man is experiencing working overtime, while seeing inflation run rampant, his paycheck getting deducted 30%, substance abuse, politicians having a rich peoples club, young male suicide rates and those needing help not getting it.

Is this different than the issues in the democratic run inner cities? I lived in seattle for 6 years, I can tell you the issues he's talked about are the same.

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  • [–] [S] 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    We seem to be going around in circles a bit. You're pointing to the various ways in which he speaks to legitimate complaints about the difficulties of life, which I've already agreed are valid. The problem is nothing he explicitly or implicitly suggests doing about those problems would actually help, and indeed the implied recommendations fit more with a conservative policy outlook that would be actively harmful to people with those problems.

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  • [+] -18 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    You’re pointing to the various ways in which he speaks to legitimate complaints about the difficulties of life, which I’ve already agreed are valid. The problem is nothing the explicitly or implicitly suggests doing about those problems would actually help,

    So we agree that the song touches on a lot of legitimate complains. What's your problem? That a man living in a trailer doesn't have policy written out on how to address these?

    and indeed the implied recommendations

    What 'implied recommendations'?? You're just making this shit up now. He's observing problems, I think the likely reason you hate it is because of how he looks, and you assume he's a MAGA hillbilly.

    There's nothing wrong with music, that generally has more appeal to the right to talk about issues that affect an average person.

    I'm a big believer that if you want to see the issues affecting working class, you listen to the music that they listen to. Rap has been talking about the issues with cyclical poverty since the 80's, has been talking about gang violence, has been talking about drug addiction. It was ignored, and now look at what's happening 40 years later, crazy crime issues, cyclical poverty and absurd drug addiction killing hundreds of thousands and ruining tens of millions of lives. Did they have policies drawn up? No, they just saw issues and made music about them.

    Why can't someone with a more bluegrass vibe do the same? He's seeing issues that he's personally experienced and y'all freak out because you don't like the way he looks.

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  • [–] [S] 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    He's blaming these problems on "rich men north of Richmond" aka Washington DC, it's not a stretch to think about the policy implications. And what are the policies he mentions? Taxes being too high and welfare benefits being too generous. Again, not exactly a stretch to see the implied recommendation is tax cuts and welfare state cuts, pretty much the core planks of the Republican Party platform.

    I definitely agree listening to the music people make and listen to can be a good way to gain insight. Really my problem with the song is the opposite of what you imply - I don't wish he had policies drawn up at all, it's the extent to which he does reveal policy preferences here that I have a problem with. Not that this guy is necessarily a piece of shit or anything, it's just that what's being revealed about him through this music is the undercurrent of conservative ideology that is the water in which he swims and which he's unconsciously reproducing in this song.

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  • [+] -17 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    Okay, I'll play along with your assumptions of this guys policy proposals based on a 3 minute song that just talks about observing common issues.

    Taxes being too high

    No, he says taxes too high for him, a working class man. Don't you agree? Do you think someone making 60k/year should be paying 25% taxes when the politicians making 10x that amount are paying 10%?

    welfare benefits being too generous.

    Really? He said 'we have too much welfare'? No - he says that there are a ton of people starving, who aren't getting welfare, but then we have people abusing the system getting that funding. The people that need funding aren't getting it, do you agree or disagree?

    Again, not exactly a stretch to see the implied recommendation is tax cuts and welfare state cuts, pretty much the core planks of the Republican Party platform.

    No, your lens of how you perceive him, make you believe he's saying these things that he's not.

    don’t wish he had policies drawn up at all

    Good, your wish came true, he doesn't mention any policies, but that's your problem, that he didn't and now you can assume his policy proposals, you're ridiculous.

    reveal policy preferences

    Once again, he doesn't. You assume based on the music he's playing and the way he looks. You're just being prejudiced.

    Not that this guy is necessarily a piece of shit or anything, it’s just that what’s being revealed about him through this music

    So you're saying you perceive him as a piece of shit because your assumptions of his policy proposals that are based on your assumptions of one line that he's saying in a vacuum?

    Honestly, if you only respond to one thing, can you please answer this question: Do you honestly think you have 0 bias in your interpretations of his song because of how he appears and the type of music he's playing?

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    -Not that this guy is necessarily a piece of shit or anything, it’s just that what’s being revealed about him through this music is the undercurrent of conservative ideology that is the water in which he swims and which he’s unconsciously reproducing in this song.

    So you’re saying you perceive him as a piece of shit because your assumptions of his policy proposals that are based on your assumptions of one line that he’s saying in a vacuum?

    I don't think I can really keep engaging with you if you're going to engage in such bad faith as to quote me saying he's not a piece of shit and respond with "so you're saying he's a piece of shit" unless you apologize and promise to try to be a little more generous in your discourse going forward.

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  • [+] -11 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I don’t think I can really keep engaging with you if you’re going to engage in such bad faith as to quote me saying he’s not a piece of shit and respond with “so you’re saying he’s a piece of shit”

    Come on man, you just said 'I'm not saying he's a POS but he's showing that he is' Like, that's the classic 'I didn't say she's a bitch, she's just acting like one.'

    I haven't been hostile to you, I've been extremely civil, and I think we've done a good job quoting each other and responding to each others statements but you can see how that statement came across, right?

    I think you're just using this one sentence of my statement showing that you're being dishonest when representing this man and his song to try and get out of a good discussion. It's a bit ironic, huh?

    I also want to note my statement in my last comment: Honestly, if you only respond to one thing, can you please answer this question: Do you honestly think you have 0 bias in your interpretations of his song because of how he appears and the type of music he’s playing?

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  • [–] [S] 14 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    You have not really been civil at all, and have repeatedly engaged in bad faith interpretations of what I and the article say, while accusing me of bias. If you can't engage in any self-reflection over that I won't engage with you.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago*

    I've been watching this and letting it play out, wondering when you would pick up on the 4chan style of engaging in discussions. It will be in bad faith and constantly having you on the back-foot. People with left leaning tendencies have a inherent need to communicate and talk, proofing statements they made. Right wingers have no such inclination , they can lie, distort, move goalposts, etc, all day long, no problem but you on the other hand will try your best to be good. Nobody can be 100% good, there will be a point that person will have a 'gotcha!' moment and you will be distraught for not getting it 'right'.

    Good on you for seeing this!

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  • [+] -7 points 2 years ago*

    I have been, just because I'm challenging how you've viewed this song doesn't mean I've been hostile.

    while accusing me of bias.

    I asked if you had a bias. The fact you think this is hostile and refuse to answer is curious....

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    The solution for the rich evading taxes isn’t “let everyone evade taxes!” Its “let’s close loopholes like capital gains and losses,” which, again, if you read the article, you’d understand

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago

    Hey man just want to say sorry for all the hate and stupiduty in this comment section. Fully expecting to get down voted with you here. I've seen lots of great opinions and comments and communities here on lemmy so far... and also... some pretty bad ones ...

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