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Argentina: Milei government on crusade against inclusive language (euro.dayfr.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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The country is breaking apart but I guess is more important to avoid using feminine expressions on official papers that make us look homo or something

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[+] -6 points 2 years ago (7 children)

Inclusive language is the dumbest fucking thing anyone tried to do to the Spanish language. For those not familiar, Spanish is a gendered language, words ending in -o are male and words ending in -a are female (not a steadfast rule there are tons of exceptions). "Academics" with too much time want to change words to a gender neutral ending -e. And it sounds so fucking stupid.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    As a native Spanish speaker, inclusive sounds a little goofy, but overall seems pretty harmless to me.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    I guess the same about Polish, this language is incredibly gendered and while the neutral gender does exist, it's a rump of it because it's only used for some inanimate objects, some animals and small babies, it is also not used at all in 1st nor 2nd person - so the mere usage of neutral form for a person automatically implies lack of agency and is a grave insult (also it became specifically transphobic insult thank to few jerks in the parliament). Language also default to masculine in case of unknown gender. So if a Pole randomly calls anyone "him" in the internet it's not necessarily purposeful misgendering, it's just how language works while English would default to neutral form - it's also one of the more common mistake in Polish translations of English books.

    But even here some efforts has been made.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    I moved to the states at a young age. I really love Spanish, and I especially love the Argentinian version of it. This inclusive language butchers the beauty of it in a lot of ways. I guess when you live there you take it for granted

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Spanish speakers could have dropped all the final vowels and basically speak Catalan "los ciudadanos" > "els ciutadans", easy! two problems (gender inclusivity and secession of Catalonia) solved at once.../s

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    But the Catalan articles are still gendered

    What puzzles me is that many IALs/conlangs based on the Romance languages (Interlingua, Elefen, etc.) insist on having a definite article (either la or le) when it could as well be dropped.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Yeah, some Catalan politicians say “els ciutadans i les ciutadanes”, much like some Spanish politicians say “los ciudadanos y las ciudadanas”. Romance languages tend to have gendered nouns (and by extension articles). 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    You are right, I don't speak Catalan and I was trying to downplay a little on a topic which is dramatic (not for the language per se but for the people who can be hurt by it). Auxlangs, being designed for a purpose, could make some little more effort towards inclusiveness. And that would be one of the few reason to prefer them to natlangs (e.g. for institutional communications).

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    That's not as bad. In Arabic it is worse. Yet somehow we try to make it work despite that the default is male in Arabic, and the only the dual (not singular or plural) can be non-gendered and only sometimes.

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  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    yeah, typical idiotic response to this debate, defending the idea that a chair is a man.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    No it's a woman, La Silla. Lmao. But origins of grammatical gender are related to the function of the word, and not related to sex. I forgot the specifics. Some languages have(or had) three 'genders' for their language.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    It doesn't really matter, it's a stupid and shitty function that is at best vestigial, and at worst, not even consistent.

    There's a lot of things you can about Turkish being a shitty language, but at least vovel harmony is always consistent, and once you get enough language exposure, you can guess the correct mutations of suffixes correctly.

    Also, you're helping me prove my point that despite actualmente aprendiendo español, usandolo casi diariamente, ya es casi impossible para recordar las reglas absurdas de generos de objectos cotidianas fuera de contexto.

    EDIT :

    origins of grammatical gender are related to the function of the word

    If this were true/functionally correct[1] you could teach newcomers to the language the function sets and how they are grouped so that people could reason their way though new objects and which gender they should have. It's not even consistent with the ending of words (el agua/la mano)

    It's literally a vestigial feature. A proper language with prescriptivism would have gotten rid of it already, like .... French? but they have lots of prescriptivism and shitty genders. Eugh.

    Sidenote : The RAE are a lazy bunch of fucks.

    [1] : it doesn't matter that the origin of grammatical gender is a true statement if the language continued to work like that, which it doesn't do anymore. The case can one of the following :

    it is true, the origin of grammatical gender is true, and it continues to work with functionality of words determining the gender

    it is true, the origin of grammatical gender is true, but it no longer works with the functionality of words determining the gender << our shitty reality, probably , but it's moot point

    it is false, the origin of grammatical gender is was not related to the function of the word, the functionality of words do not determine their gender

    it is false, the origin of grammatical gender is was not related to the function of the word, but the functionality of words do determine their gender

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