▲ 1023 ▼ ‘It will be the end of democracy’: Bernie Sanders on what happens if Trump wins – and how to stop him (www.theguardian.com) submitted 2 years ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world 322 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 226 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] lennybird@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago* (5 children) Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There's only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 27 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're assuming that 1st world countries will have us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chonkymaru@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 years ago Seconding this. Moving to another country without skilled work history and/or higher education in a niche field that would be of use to the destination country is extremely hard to do. You, basically, have to beat out a skilled worker that already lives there. The other option is to be wealthy and buy your way in. A lot of people have this misconception that moving elsewhere is easy. Turns out, when assholes yell at you about leaving the country when you don't like something, they're not being genuine and more doors are closed to you than open. And, if you're asking yourself how all the other immigrants are doing it, I can guess that they're possibly being exploited with by pay that won't be a living wage and/or have a desperate situation back home. Interestingly, I've seen a few people warn that, when poop finally hits the fan because of ww3, you don't necessarily want to be the othered, new family on the block. Take my words with a grain of salt, but reality might be much different than people think when it comes to jumping ship. permalink fedilink source parent [–] docAvid@midwest.social 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That's the hard, honest truth. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago Agreed. We need to stay, and we need to fight to change the system from the inside. We can still prevent disaster at this stage. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kyatto@leminal.space 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) With my partner, friends, and I being "degenerates" and likely the first group the fascists genocide... nope, see ya, I'm out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren't in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It's only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] docAvid@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go. permalink fedilink source parent [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago The problem is that without good people to stop them, evil people taking charge of the USA would radically change the entire world. It's not easy, but most of us have to stay. Maybe all of us... permalink fedilink source parent [–] escaped_cruzader@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago I'll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn permalink fedilink source parent [–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 47 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yes. That's the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck. We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 23 points 2 years ago (3 children) If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It'd be a start at least permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago* (1 child) This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo. Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Wtf? Civil Rights? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago That's far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Bless your heart.❤️ permalink fedilink source parent [–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago That's my favorite. I've watched it more than a few times permalink fedilink source parent [–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (1 child) It always has been. We might be tempted to think that our Democratic heritage automatically protects us from such threats. This is a misguided reflex. In fact, the precedent set by the founders demand that we examine history to understand the deep sources of tyranny and consider the proper responses to it. - On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder (Chapter 1, Page 13) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Wogi@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (3 children) I wonder if Haley is staying in the race betting that Trump won't be able to run in November permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] CptOblivius@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago That has been my assumption as well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago I think she would help Biden if she stayed in the race as an independent permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheBat@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Betting on Trump's last hamburder permalink fedilink source parent [–] fidodo@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago We need to focus on smaller winnable races. Unfortunately we can't shortcut our way into the presidential candidates we want, we need to replace the establishment and build a foundation of allies to support it. I know a lot of us are in conservative areas where you can't realistically get new candidates elected locally, but you can still volunteer for races in other parts of the country. If we can shift politics in the house and Senate the presidency will follow. It's hard work but it's possible. permalink fedilink source parent [–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) When's the last time that hasn't been the case? 1964? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Always has been that way permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago* (5 children) Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There's only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 27 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're assuming that 1st world countries will have us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chonkymaru@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 years ago Seconding this. Moving to another country without skilled work history and/or higher education in a niche field that would be of use to the destination country is extremely hard to do. You, basically, have to beat out a skilled worker that already lives there. The other option is to be wealthy and buy your way in. A lot of people have this misconception that moving elsewhere is easy. Turns out, when assholes yell at you about leaving the country when you don't like something, they're not being genuine and more doors are closed to you than open. And, if you're asking yourself how all the other immigrants are doing it, I can guess that they're possibly being exploited with by pay that won't be a living wage and/or have a desperate situation back home. Interestingly, I've seen a few people warn that, when poop finally hits the fan because of ww3, you don't necessarily want to be the othered, new family on the block. Take my words with a grain of salt, but reality might be much different than people think when it comes to jumping ship. permalink fedilink source parent [–] docAvid@midwest.social 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That's the hard, honest truth. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago Agreed. We need to stay, and we need to fight to change the system from the inside. We can still prevent disaster at this stage. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kyatto@leminal.space 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) With my partner, friends, and I being "degenerates" and likely the first group the fascists genocide... nope, see ya, I'm out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren't in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It's only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] docAvid@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go. permalink fedilink source parent [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago The problem is that without good people to stop them, evil people taking charge of the USA would radically change the entire world. It's not easy, but most of us have to stay. Maybe all of us... permalink fedilink source parent [–] escaped_cruzader@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago I'll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 27 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're assuming that 1st world countries will have us. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] chonkymaru@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 years ago Seconding this. Moving to another country without skilled work history and/or higher education in a niche field that would be of use to the destination country is extremely hard to do. You, basically, have to beat out a skilled worker that already lives there. The other option is to be wealthy and buy your way in. A lot of people have this misconception that moving elsewhere is easy. Turns out, when assholes yell at you about leaving the country when you don't like something, they're not being genuine and more doors are closed to you than open. And, if you're asking yourself how all the other immigrants are doing it, I can guess that they're possibly being exploited with by pay that won't be a living wage and/or have a desperate situation back home. Interestingly, I've seen a few people warn that, when poop finally hits the fan because of ww3, you don't necessarily want to be the othered, new family on the block. Take my words with a grain of salt, but reality might be much different than people think when it comes to jumping ship. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] chonkymaru@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 years ago Seconding this. Moving to another country without skilled work history and/or higher education in a niche field that would be of use to the destination country is extremely hard to do. You, basically, have to beat out a skilled worker that already lives there. The other option is to be wealthy and buy your way in. A lot of people have this misconception that moving elsewhere is easy. Turns out, when assholes yell at you about leaving the country when you don't like something, they're not being genuine and more doors are closed to you than open. And, if you're asking yourself how all the other immigrants are doing it, I can guess that they're possibly being exploited with by pay that won't be a living wage and/or have a desperate situation back home. Interestingly, I've seen a few people warn that, when poop finally hits the fan because of ww3, you don't necessarily want to be the othered, new family on the block. Take my words with a grain of salt, but reality might be much different than people think when it comes to jumping ship. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] docAvid@midwest.social 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That's the hard, honest truth. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago Agreed. We need to stay, and we need to fight to change the system from the inside. We can still prevent disaster at this stage. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Kyatto@leminal.space 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) With my partner, friends, and I being "degenerates" and likely the first group the fascists genocide... nope, see ya, I'm out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren't in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It's only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] docAvid@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago Agreed. We need to stay, and we need to fight to change the system from the inside. We can still prevent disaster at this stage. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kyatto@leminal.space 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) With my partner, friends, and I being "degenerates" and likely the first group the fascists genocide... nope, see ya, I'm out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren't in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It's only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] docAvid@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] docAvid@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago The problem is that without good people to stop them, evil people taking charge of the USA would radically change the entire world. It's not easy, but most of us have to stay. Maybe all of us... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] escaped_cruzader@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago I'll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn permalink fedilink source parent
[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 47 points 2 years ago (2 children) Yes. That's the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck. We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 23 points 2 years ago (3 children) If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It'd be a start at least permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago* (1 child) This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo. Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Wtf? Civil Rights? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago That's far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Bless your heart.❤️ permalink fedilink source parent [–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago That's my favorite. I've watched it more than a few times permalink fedilink source parent
[+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 23 points 2 years ago (3 children) If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It'd be a start at least permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago* (1 child) This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo. Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Wtf? Civil Rights? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago That's far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Bless your heart.❤️ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 23 points 2 years ago (3 children) If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It'd be a start at least permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago* (1 child) This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo. Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Wtf? Civil Rights? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago That's far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Bless your heart.❤️ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago* (1 child) This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo. Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Wtf? Civil Rights? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Wtf? Civil Rights? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago That's far too naive. All that will do is entrench liberalism, which is extremely weak against fascism rising. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago Bless your heart.❤️ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] smeenz@lemmy.nz 21 points 2 years ago (1 child) Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago That's my favorite. I've watched it more than a few times permalink fedilink source parent
[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago That's my favorite. I've watched it more than a few times permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (1 child) It always has been. We might be tempted to think that our Democratic heritage automatically protects us from such threats. This is a misguided reflex. In fact, the precedent set by the founders demand that we examine history to understand the deep sources of tyranny and consider the proper responses to it. - On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder (Chapter 1, Page 13) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (3 children) I wonder if Haley is staying in the race betting that Trump won't be able to run in November permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] CptOblivius@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago That has been my assumption as well. permalink fedilink source parent [–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago I think she would help Biden if she stayed in the race as an independent permalink fedilink source parent [–] TheBat@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Betting on Trump's last hamburder permalink fedilink source parent
[–] CptOblivius@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago That has been my assumption as well. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago I think she would help Biden if she stayed in the race as an independent permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago Betting on Trump's last hamburder permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fidodo@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago We need to focus on smaller winnable races. Unfortunately we can't shortcut our way into the presidential candidates we want, we need to replace the establishment and build a foundation of allies to support it. I know a lot of us are in conservative areas where you can't realistically get new candidates elected locally, but you can still volunteer for races in other parts of the country. If we can shift politics in the house and Senate the presidency will follow. It's hard work but it's possible. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) When's the last time that hasn't been the case? 1964? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Always has been that way permalink fedilink source parent