▲ 586 ▼ Windows 11 24H2 goes from “unsupported” to “unbootable” on some older PCs (arstechnica.com) submitted 2 years ago by einat2346@lemmy.today to c/technology@lemmy.world 251 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 90 points 2 years ago (2 children) OH NO anyway. permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 25 points 2 years ago (7 children) Maybe this will convince more people to switch to linux. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] thantik@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (3 children) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch deck. FTFY permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Almost all I play on now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol. I don't support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as "unsupported" titles via Proton GE) permalink fedilink source parent [–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Tried getting PCVR working with the Quest 2, unfortunately support is still a hot mess and leaves the system with a super janky flood of audio devices, in addition to legendary stutters that make it unplayable. Win11 still better for VR. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Only pita setback is things like fortnite and other multi-player games insisting on only using anticheat software that isn't Linux compatible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thantik@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I'm okay with this. I don't support those publishers anyways. People should stop supporting them altogether. permalink fedilink source parent [–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) Could be. If you're running a core 2 duo I am fairly certain Linux will run markedly faster than Windows 10+... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 5 points 2 years ago I actually still have some old servers with chips from that period, one of them is still being used as my firewall but until last year I was using others to run multiple VMs for email and web sites. Not as power-efficient but they do still work. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Abnorc@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] papabobolious@feddit.nu 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'll be sure to inform my whole company and I am sure they will be on board permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 2 points 2 years ago Don't you wish... 😜 permalink fedilink source parent [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's not a guarantee on the Linux world either, but at least you do have the option of recompiling your distro to not use those options. There's talks from some distros to start dropping support for such old CPUs because it's holding back newer CPUs that could run even faster by using those instructions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Is it really that hard to include a fallback though? Obviously there's a way to collect the information without that flag. I suppose if you didn't want to take a performance hitting checking the flag all the time it could become a compile option (I would think anyone running that old of hardware would be willing to learn how to compile the kernel anyway), but there should be options available to keep the support available some how? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 2 points 2 years ago That's pretty much exactly how it works already. You compile with -march=x86-64-v4 and it'll use SSE and AVX all over the place. glibc does the runtime thing, but only once on application startup where the dynamic linker will link the version of the function optimized for your CPU. But it's a manual process on glibc's part, the variants are written by hand. Not every project cares enough to do it dynamically like that and it would be a nightmare that way. The fallback is, recompile with -march=x86-64 which will only use the base set of instructions. Or -march=i486 if you want to run on absolutely ancient hardware. permalink fedilink source parent [–] fruitSnackSupreme@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Just ordered a system76 laptop, can't wait to use it! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 1 point 2 years ago Oh I've set up a couple of those at work! Their systems seem to be rock-solid (at least I've heard no complaints over the last few years), and their tech support is outstanding. Good luck with your new shiny! permalink fedilink source parent [–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social -3 points 2 years ago (2 children) Issue is, a lot of people still using Windows, and Linux pro-audio is still questionable at best (lack of drivers, etc.). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago I don't think the venn diagram for people relying on pro-audio and using 20 year old computers has a large overlap. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago Also there's lots of industry tools where you can't really use anything but Windows. Even if you could technically make it work, it isn't a good idea because of how critical the system you're interfacing with is. permalink fedilink source parent [–] z00s@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The actual oh no is the amount of ewaste this will create as people buy completely new systems as they think that's their only option permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One man's ewaste is another man's etreasure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] z00s@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Sure, but only a fraction will be saved. It’s criminal how much ewaste Apple and Microsoft are responsible for. That’s what happens when people are taught that profits can only increase year on year. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 25 points 2 years ago (7 children) Maybe this will convince more people to switch to linux. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] thantik@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (3 children) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch deck. FTFY permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Almost all I play on now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol. I don't support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as "unsupported" titles via Proton GE) permalink fedilink source parent [–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Tried getting PCVR working with the Quest 2, unfortunately support is still a hot mess and leaves the system with a super janky flood of audio devices, in addition to legendary stutters that make it unplayable. Win11 still better for VR. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Only pita setback is things like fortnite and other multi-player games insisting on only using anticheat software that isn't Linux compatible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thantik@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I'm okay with this. I don't support those publishers anyways. People should stop supporting them altogether. permalink fedilink source parent [–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) Could be. If you're running a core 2 duo I am fairly certain Linux will run markedly faster than Windows 10+... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 5 points 2 years ago I actually still have some old servers with chips from that period, one of them is still being used as my firewall but until last year I was using others to run multiple VMs for email and web sites. Not as power-efficient but they do still work. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Abnorc@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] papabobolious@feddit.nu 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'll be sure to inform my whole company and I am sure they will be on board permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 2 points 2 years ago Don't you wish... 😜 permalink fedilink source parent [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's not a guarantee on the Linux world either, but at least you do have the option of recompiling your distro to not use those options. There's talks from some distros to start dropping support for such old CPUs because it's holding back newer CPUs that could run even faster by using those instructions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Is it really that hard to include a fallback though? Obviously there's a way to collect the information without that flag. I suppose if you didn't want to take a performance hitting checking the flag all the time it could become a compile option (I would think anyone running that old of hardware would be willing to learn how to compile the kernel anyway), but there should be options available to keep the support available some how? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 2 points 2 years ago That's pretty much exactly how it works already. You compile with -march=x86-64-v4 and it'll use SSE and AVX all over the place. glibc does the runtime thing, but only once on application startup where the dynamic linker will link the version of the function optimized for your CPU. But it's a manual process on glibc's part, the variants are written by hand. Not every project cares enough to do it dynamically like that and it would be a nightmare that way. The fallback is, recompile with -march=x86-64 which will only use the base set of instructions. Or -march=i486 if you want to run on absolutely ancient hardware. permalink fedilink source parent [–] fruitSnackSupreme@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Just ordered a system76 laptop, can't wait to use it! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 1 point 2 years ago Oh I've set up a couple of those at work! Their systems seem to be rock-solid (at least I've heard no complaints over the last few years), and their tech support is outstanding. Good luck with your new shiny! permalink fedilink source parent [–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social -3 points 2 years ago (2 children) Issue is, a lot of people still using Windows, and Linux pro-audio is still questionable at best (lack of drivers, etc.). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago I don't think the venn diagram for people relying on pro-audio and using 20 year old computers has a large overlap. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago Also there's lots of industry tools where you can't really use anything but Windows. Even if you could technically make it work, it isn't a good idea because of how critical the system you're interfacing with is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thantik@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (3 children) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch deck. FTFY permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Almost all I play on now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol. I don't support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as "unsupported" titles via Proton GE) permalink fedilink source parent [–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Tried getting PCVR working with the Quest 2, unfortunately support is still a hot mess and leaves the system with a super janky flood of audio devices, in addition to legendary stutters that make it unplayable. Win11 still better for VR. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Only pita setback is things like fortnite and other multi-player games insisting on only using anticheat software that isn't Linux compatible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thantik@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I'm okay with this. I don't support those publishers anyways. People should stop supporting them altogether. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aksdb@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it's really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch deck. FTFY permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Almost all I play on now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol. I don't support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as "unsupported" titles via Proton GE) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Almost all I play on now. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol. I don't support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as "unsupported" titles via Proton GE) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol. I don't support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as "unsupported" titles via Proton GE) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago Tried getting PCVR working with the Quest 2, unfortunately support is still a hot mess and leaves the system with a super janky flood of audio devices, in addition to legendary stutters that make it unplayable. Win11 still better for VR. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Only pita setback is things like fortnite and other multi-player games insisting on only using anticheat software that isn't Linux compatible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] thantik@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I'm okay with this. I don't support those publishers anyways. People should stop supporting them altogether. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] thantik@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I'm okay with this. I don't support those publishers anyways. People should stop supporting them altogether. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] agent_flounder@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago (1 child) Could be. If you're running a core 2 duo I am fairly certain Linux will run markedly faster than Windows 10+... permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 5 points 2 years ago I actually still have some old servers with chips from that period, one of them is still being used as my firewall but until last year I was using others to run multiple VMs for email and web sites. Not as power-efficient but they do still work. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 5 points 2 years ago I actually still have some old servers with chips from that period, one of them is still being used as my firewall but until last year I was using others to run multiple VMs for email and web sites. Not as power-efficient but they do still work. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Abnorc@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] papabobolious@feddit.nu 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'll be sure to inform my whole company and I am sure they will be on board permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 2 points 2 years ago Don't you wish... 😜 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) That's not a guarantee on the Linux world either, but at least you do have the option of recompiling your distro to not use those options. There's talks from some distros to start dropping support for such old CPUs because it's holding back newer CPUs that could run even faster by using those instructions. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Is it really that hard to include a fallback though? Obviously there's a way to collect the information without that flag. I suppose if you didn't want to take a performance hitting checking the flag all the time it could become a compile option (I would think anyone running that old of hardware would be willing to learn how to compile the kernel anyway), but there should be options available to keep the support available some how? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 2 points 2 years ago That's pretty much exactly how it works already. You compile with -march=x86-64-v4 and it'll use SSE and AVX all over the place. glibc does the runtime thing, but only once on application startup where the dynamic linker will link the version of the function optimized for your CPU. But it's a manual process on glibc's part, the variants are written by hand. Not every project cares enough to do it dynamically like that and it would be a nightmare that way. The fallback is, recompile with -march=x86-64 which will only use the base set of instructions. Or -march=i486 if you want to run on absolutely ancient hardware. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Is it really that hard to include a fallback though? Obviously there's a way to collect the information without that flag. I suppose if you didn't want to take a performance hitting checking the flag all the time it could become a compile option (I would think anyone running that old of hardware would be willing to learn how to compile the kernel anyway), but there should be options available to keep the support available some how? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 2 points 2 years ago That's pretty much exactly how it works already. You compile with -march=x86-64-v4 and it'll use SSE and AVX all over the place. glibc does the runtime thing, but only once on application startup where the dynamic linker will link the version of the function optimized for your CPU. But it's a manual process on glibc's part, the variants are written by hand. Not every project cares enough to do it dynamically like that and it would be a nightmare that way. The fallback is, recompile with -march=x86-64 which will only use the base set of instructions. Or -march=i486 if you want to run on absolutely ancient hardware. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 2 points 2 years ago That's pretty much exactly how it works already. You compile with -march=x86-64-v4 and it'll use SSE and AVX all over the place. glibc does the runtime thing, but only once on application startup where the dynamic linker will link the version of the function optimized for your CPU. But it's a manual process on glibc's part, the variants are written by hand. Not every project cares enough to do it dynamically like that and it would be a nightmare that way. The fallback is, recompile with -march=x86-64 which will only use the base set of instructions. Or -march=i486 if you want to run on absolutely ancient hardware. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fruitSnackSupreme@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Just ordered a system76 laptop, can't wait to use it! permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 1 point 2 years ago Oh I've set up a couple of those at work! Their systems seem to be rock-solid (at least I've heard no complaints over the last few years), and their tech support is outstanding. Good luck with your new shiny! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 1 point 2 years ago Oh I've set up a couple of those at work! Their systems seem to be rock-solid (at least I've heard no complaints over the last few years), and their tech support is outstanding. Good luck with your new shiny! permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social -3 points 2 years ago (2 children) Issue is, a lot of people still using Windows, and Linux pro-audio is still questionable at best (lack of drivers, etc.). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] aksdb@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago I don't think the venn diagram for people relying on pro-audio and using 20 year old computers has a large overlap. permalink fedilink source parent [–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago Also there's lots of industry tools where you can't really use anything but Windows. Even if you could technically make it work, it isn't a good idea because of how critical the system you're interfacing with is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] aksdb@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago I don't think the venn diagram for people relying on pro-audio and using 20 year old computers has a large overlap. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TWeaK@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago Also there's lots of industry tools where you can't really use anything but Windows. Even if you could technically make it work, it isn't a good idea because of how critical the system you're interfacing with is. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] z00s@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) The actual oh no is the amount of ewaste this will create as people buy completely new systems as they think that's their only option permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One man's ewaste is another man's etreasure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] z00s@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Sure, but only a fraction will be saved. It’s criminal how much ewaste Apple and Microsoft are responsible for. That’s what happens when people are taught that profits can only increase year on year. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One man's ewaste is another man's etreasure. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] z00s@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Sure, but only a fraction will be saved. It’s criminal how much ewaste Apple and Microsoft are responsible for. That’s what happens when people are taught that profits can only increase year on year. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] z00s@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Sure, but only a fraction will be saved. It’s criminal how much ewaste Apple and Microsoft are responsible for. That’s what happens when people are taught that profits can only increase year on year. permalink fedilink source parent