Went to a restaurant in LA today and when I got the check I noticed that it was a bit higher than it should be. Then I noticed this 18% service charge. So... We, as customers, need to help pay for their servers instead of the owners paying their servers a living wage. And on top of that they have suggested tip. I called bs on this. I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge. [deleted a word so it wasn't a grammatical horror to read]

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[–] 328 points 2 years ago* (8 children)

So it's a mandatory tip, and it's also suggested you voluntarily leave a secondary tip.

Tip culture in America is so aggressive.

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  • [–] 49 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    It’s getting stupid in Canada too despite our laws being different (as in, you cannot make less than minimum wage if you work in a place that allows tips).

    I got my oil changed a few months ago and the machine prompted me for a tip. For what? The mechanic did their job, I paid for said job. Transaction concluded.

    I tried Crumbl cookies for the first (and last, holy crap overpriced) time. Got asked for a tip. For what? I got six cookies in a box and then had to leave the store because there’s no seating to eat them there. The person who helped me took my order. That’s it. Another employee put six cookies in a box and put them on a counter and said my number. Not a lot of wiggle room to go “above and beyond.”

    What’s next? A tip at the grocery store for the cashier scanning my groceries? A tip at the drive-thru?

    Here’s a tip. Don’t work for an employer who doesn’t pay you what you’re worth.

    EDIT: Actually, the tip at the drive-thru is already a thing. Starbucks prompts for a tip at the drive-thru. For what? The barista took my order and made my coffee. I drove up to a window, took it, and fucked off.

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  • [–] 35 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    I booked a hotel online the other day and was asked if I want to leave a tip... A tip for what? I didn't even interact with a human. Just clicked a few buttons on a website. Am I tipping the web developer?? Lol

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    As a developer, I never get tips. Even on my open-source stuff, I have a “tip jar” PayPal link on the very bottom of my readme files. Never asked, never required. Know how much I’ve made in tips over the years? Exactly $0.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    I know it feels gross, but asking is how you get people to do things. This is true for pretty much everything. That’s why mobile apps have a popup asking people to leave a rating, and Apple even has a standardized API for showing that popup since it’s so common.

    So you should try something similar for you projects. Come up with an (ideally non-intrusive) ask that feels like a personal request rather than just a link dumped somewhere in a readme.

    And if you feel bad about it, just remember that getting people to pay for OSS is a win for the whole ecosystem!

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

    Starbucks barista doesn't even "make" the coffee. They use superautomatic espresso machines. Starbucks coffee sucks ass.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Does it suck because of or despite the machines?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Superautomatic machines make inferior espresso shots objectively. For various mechanical reasons they will never make espresso as well as non-automatic machine.

    That being said, I own one at my house. It's very convenient and it's passable espresso (when using decent beans, Starbucks burns their espresso beans and that's the main reason it sucks). However, if I'm paying $5+ for a couple shots of espresso in whatever form I'm expecting it to be made right. Not worse than my mid range home machine makes with a couple button taps.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    In the US you generally cannot make less than minimum wage, the employer can directly pay you less as long as your full compensation (pay + tips) are at least minimum wage, if not they are supposed to pay more.

    I think the explosion of tip questions is due to the card processors figuring out there was an untapped area where they could pressure people to tip and skim off a percentage of that.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago* (7 children)

    Service charge I would presume is primarily paid out to the non-wait staff at the restaurant. The kitchen in particular.
    Tips go to the wait staff, and they will pay some of that out to other staff (e.g. front staff) depending on how the restaurant works.

    These are going to be separate. The service charge is there so they can increase prices by a tightly controlled amount without needing to fuck up the carefully targeted price points ($8 or $7.99 is a lot better than $9.44). Which is shitty, to be clear: it's a hidden way to increase prices while still advertising the same price. But it's not something that replaces or complements the tip, it's just a shitty price-adjustment.

    A waiter or waitress is still going to be dependent on the actual tip.

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  • [–] 85 points 2 years ago (13 children)

    Why don’t the restaurants just pay actual living wage then?

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago*

    If I share the little green pieces of paper, I can afford a used Toyota. If I keep them all to myself, I can buy a new Cadillac and drive past my starving workers in style.

    Can’t hear them crying over a V8 exhaust right?

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Because they're allowed not to do so. The answer is shitty yet simple.

    Someone not tipping won't change that either; all that will do is stiff a worker. This needs to be fixed by changing labor laws.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    That’s entirely bullshit. A restaurant can absolutely pay a living wage and not do tips. Plenty of restaurants do it.

    The simple fact is that servers don’t want that. They make more in tips.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    I hear this repeated so often and it ignores one glaringly obvious fact, servers aren’t the ones making any decisions…literally anywhere. They are the absolute bottom rung of decision-making. It is most definitely the restaurants that are just fine paying as little as possible. Servers do love mandatory gratuity however. Working a party of 10 when only one person tips on their own meal can mess up your whole night.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Point to your credit here: it's illegal in this state to pay less than minimum wage whether the employee is tipped or not. ALL workers make at least $15.74/hr here, except for 14 and 15 year olds who can be paid 80% of minimum wage.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    That’s a good question, and the easy answer is ‘they should.’ As the commenter above you mentioned, they use it as a tactic to advertise the same (competitive to other local restaurants) price people are used to. A more transparent way of doing business would be raising the price of the menu items to compensate staff fairly. The restaurant owners/management fear that if they do this it would drive away customers who believe the food is overpriced and look to their competitors. It’s easy to say, ‘just pay the staff a fair wage,’ but not quite as easy in practice. Most restaurants are small businesses just barely scraping by. The OP is right to be annoyed, but as always, context and a basic understanding of a situation’s underlying principles make the easy answer difficult to implement.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    I worked in restaurants for years and this is the correct answer. I also die a little inside at how many posts say to pay servers a living wage but then balk at the idea of paying extra for the meal. Where else would the money come from??! As you said, if they raise menu prices, their competition will undercut and do this. It would also affect takeout prices where tips are usually lower. People hate tipping and want a magic solution where waiters make more but also nobody’s charged more.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Because then they'd have to raise prices.

    Especially nowadays with so many people looking up menu prices online before going somewhere, it's a way to present your prices as lower than they actually are.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Biden was in the news saying he wants to get rid of hidden fees. I was surprised that restaraunts weren't on the list of industries being targeted. This kind of fee should be illegal. It should be required to be a part of the up-front price.

    Hell, I feel the same about sales tax. It should be baked in to the price you see on the shelf or menu.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    Thank you for posting this you are correct the fee goes to the restaurant and they use the money to pay the back of house. In my experience it is just so the restaurant can provide the same wages as before to back of house but not out of the restaurants pocket. This tends to result in people tipping less so the server directly makes less money. There is also often no accounting/oversight into how the restaurant uses the fee. If I recall correctly the city of Los Angeles is looking into the legality of how these fees are presented to the customer and the fact there is no oversight.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Reminds me of how dealerships can sell cars above the MSRP ... SMH

    (( They do it in US but not in Europe; or so I heard ))

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago*

    Owner wants to get his cut, server wants to put gas in their car. We’re a country of 350 million attempted unique make it rich stories and it’s a goddamn mess.

    We need UBI and jobs programs aka Trek after WW3…but I fear we may have to fight the war to get it

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    How is this any different than just raising the price of everything by 18%? But you see service charge and a percentage and its an outrage.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    If you raise the price of everything by 18% the prices on the menu will be 18% higher, possibly discouraging people from eating there. If you add it at the end people will still choose to eat there at least once. It is practically the same as raising prices, just a lot more dishonest.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Also illegal. It's called bait and switch. Advertise one price, provide the service, then change the price. What if you went to get $50 in gas, and after you put the nozzle back the price suddenly changed to $59. Unless there's a very visible sign saying it would happen before you started pumping, it's illegal.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    I'm sure that they have a sign by the front stating that they do this. Probably on the menu as well. I doubt that most people are doing the math themselves and are more likely to see a $10 menu item and think it's $10 + tax and fees. Basically the extra fees are an afterthought.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Because raising the price of everything lets you know ahead of time that you are paying more. I'm fine with a price hike if it means servers get better pay, but hiding it like this is scummy and borderline fraudulent.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It isn’t hidden. They tell you upfront there is an 18% charge, however they rely on people ignoring that or psychologically not caring and only looking at the item price.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I wonder how many people would see the warning and assume it just means an 18% auto gratuity? Because that's very common and the amount is exactly what many auto gratuities have (or at least had when I last was in the US, which was several years ago). Because if I saw something saying there was an 18% service fee, that's what I'd assume. I would not think there'd be a tip on top of that.

    That said, the US custom of not including the final price (including taxes) in the posted prices is a shitty, toxic practice and should be illegal.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Listen to this scam.
    I stopped at a Starbucks kiosk to get my kid a juice box the other day. When I paid for it by card the card machine prompted for a tip, 25%, 20%, and 15%. Here's the kicker, 25% was selected by default! You actually have to use button on the machine to move through the selections to get to NONE. To top it off the lady behind the counter casually said, "Oh you're using a card? Just press the green accept button when the menu comes up." which would have selected the 25 option.

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