▲ 683 ▼ ‘Entire family gone’: Israel kills 250 Palestinians in 24 hours (www.aljazeera.com) submitted 2 years ago by CollisionResistance@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world 146 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (1 child) So maybe 2,000 pound bombs weren't the right weapon? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -3 points 2 years ago (2 children) There are no good weapons for densely populated areas. Civilian casualties will always be high in populated urban areas unfortunately. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are better weapons though. Also, shooting people who are trying to evacuate through your lines is generally considered bad. Compressing the population into a smaller area that you're using 2,000 pound bombs in is also bad. Nobody is expecting zero civilian causalities, but this is obviously the most inept army or a professional army conducting a genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) But if it were a professional army conducting a genocide as you allege, wouldn't they be much better at it? This is where I keep coming back to. I would agree with "professional army that is ranking military value significantly higher than minimizing civilian casualties" but that isn't genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They don't have to be doing it systematically to be doing it. And participation would still likely vary between units. It's an extremely difficult thing to do psychologically. So some units are pulling all the military age men out to shoot and others are just shooting whoever they happen to see that's not in an IDF uniform. Both are genocidal acts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) OK.... so any war crime is genocide now? It really feels like we're broadening the definition substantially. And don't get me wrong - war crimes are awful and should be prosecuted. But calling them all genocide feels.... dilutive to systematic extermination of a people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Especially when you've cornered that population in an open air prison before bombing them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Egypt could open their gates if they wanted to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) So Israel can displace the whole population of Palestine? That's genocide. You're pro genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) First, I’m not pro anything. I didn’t say anyone should do something. I said there are other parties who could do something. Second, displacement isn’t genocide by any definition I’ve heard. And again, to be extra explicit, I’m not saying they should be displaced, or that it would be right to displace anyone. But you can’t call it an open air prison and then call me a genocide supporter when I point out there’s another door to the “prison”? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -3 points 2 years ago (2 children) There are no good weapons for densely populated areas. Civilian casualties will always be high in populated urban areas unfortunately. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are better weapons though. Also, shooting people who are trying to evacuate through your lines is generally considered bad. Compressing the population into a smaller area that you're using 2,000 pound bombs in is also bad. Nobody is expecting zero civilian causalities, but this is obviously the most inept army or a professional army conducting a genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) But if it were a professional army conducting a genocide as you allege, wouldn't they be much better at it? This is where I keep coming back to. I would agree with "professional army that is ranking military value significantly higher than minimizing civilian casualties" but that isn't genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They don't have to be doing it systematically to be doing it. And participation would still likely vary between units. It's an extremely difficult thing to do psychologically. So some units are pulling all the military age men out to shoot and others are just shooting whoever they happen to see that's not in an IDF uniform. Both are genocidal acts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) OK.... so any war crime is genocide now? It really feels like we're broadening the definition substantially. And don't get me wrong - war crimes are awful and should be prosecuted. But calling them all genocide feels.... dilutive to systematic extermination of a people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Especially when you've cornered that population in an open air prison before bombing them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Egypt could open their gates if they wanted to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) So Israel can displace the whole population of Palestine? That's genocide. You're pro genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) First, I’m not pro anything. I didn’t say anyone should do something. I said there are other parties who could do something. Second, displacement isn’t genocide by any definition I’ve heard. And again, to be extra explicit, I’m not saying they should be displaced, or that it would be right to displace anyone. But you can’t call it an open air prison and then call me a genocide supporter when I point out there’s another door to the “prison”? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) There are better weapons though. Also, shooting people who are trying to evacuate through your lines is generally considered bad. Compressing the population into a smaller area that you're using 2,000 pound bombs in is also bad. Nobody is expecting zero civilian causalities, but this is obviously the most inept army or a professional army conducting a genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) But if it were a professional army conducting a genocide as you allege, wouldn't they be much better at it? This is where I keep coming back to. I would agree with "professional army that is ranking military value significantly higher than minimizing civilian casualties" but that isn't genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They don't have to be doing it systematically to be doing it. And participation would still likely vary between units. It's an extremely difficult thing to do psychologically. So some units are pulling all the military age men out to shoot and others are just shooting whoever they happen to see that's not in an IDF uniform. Both are genocidal acts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) OK.... so any war crime is genocide now? It really feels like we're broadening the definition substantially. And don't get me wrong - war crimes are awful and should be prosecuted. But calling them all genocide feels.... dilutive to systematic extermination of a people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) But if it were a professional army conducting a genocide as you allege, wouldn't they be much better at it? This is where I keep coming back to. I would agree with "professional army that is ranking military value significantly higher than minimizing civilian casualties" but that isn't genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They don't have to be doing it systematically to be doing it. And participation would still likely vary between units. It's an extremely difficult thing to do psychologically. So some units are pulling all the military age men out to shoot and others are just shooting whoever they happen to see that's not in an IDF uniform. Both are genocidal acts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) OK.... so any war crime is genocide now? It really feels like we're broadening the definition substantially. And don't get me wrong - war crimes are awful and should be prosecuted. But calling them all genocide feels.... dilutive to systematic extermination of a people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) They don't have to be doing it systematically to be doing it. And participation would still likely vary between units. It's an extremely difficult thing to do psychologically. So some units are pulling all the military age men out to shoot and others are just shooting whoever they happen to see that's not in an IDF uniform. Both are genocidal acts. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) OK.... so any war crime is genocide now? It really feels like we're broadening the definition substantially. And don't get me wrong - war crimes are awful and should be prosecuted. But calling them all genocide feels.... dilutive to systematic extermination of a people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) OK.... so any war crime is genocide now? It really feels like we're broadening the definition substantially. And don't get me wrong - war crimes are awful and should be prosecuted. But calling them all genocide feels.... dilutive to systematic extermination of a people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* Taken alone, no. But those are just two examples, of many to choose from, to show how genocide doesn't necessarily mean trains and ovens. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Especially when you've cornered that population in an open air prison before bombing them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Egypt could open their gates if they wanted to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) So Israel can displace the whole population of Palestine? That's genocide. You're pro genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) First, I’m not pro anything. I didn’t say anyone should do something. I said there are other parties who could do something. Second, displacement isn’t genocide by any definition I’ve heard. And again, to be extra explicit, I’m not saying they should be displaced, or that it would be right to displace anyone. But you can’t call it an open air prison and then call me a genocide supporter when I point out there’s another door to the “prison”? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Egypt could open their gates if they wanted to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) So Israel can displace the whole population of Palestine? That's genocide. You're pro genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) First, I’m not pro anything. I didn’t say anyone should do something. I said there are other parties who could do something. Second, displacement isn’t genocide by any definition I’ve heard. And again, to be extra explicit, I’m not saying they should be displaced, or that it would be right to displace anyone. But you can’t call it an open air prison and then call me a genocide supporter when I point out there’s another door to the “prison”? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Shyfer@ttrpg.network 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) So Israel can displace the whole population of Palestine? That's genocide. You're pro genocide. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) First, I’m not pro anything. I didn’t say anyone should do something. I said there are other parties who could do something. Second, displacement isn’t genocide by any definition I’ve heard. And again, to be extra explicit, I’m not saying they should be displaced, or that it would be right to displace anyone. But you can’t call it an open air prison and then call me a genocide supporter when I point out there’s another door to the “prison”? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stevehobbes@lemy.lol -2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) First, I’m not pro anything. I didn’t say anyone should do something. I said there are other parties who could do something. Second, displacement isn’t genocide by any definition I’ve heard. And again, to be extra explicit, I’m not saying they should be displaced, or that it would be right to displace anyone. But you can’t call it an open air prison and then call me a genocide supporter when I point out there’s another door to the “prison”? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Snoozemumrik@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago Oh, okay. The displacement part is just a crime against humanity according to UN definition, the rest of the genocide is covered by "Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" permalink fedilink source parent