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debate club (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

You shouldn't have expected better from @fosforus@sopuli.xyz and I shouldn't have answered their dumb question either... I should have stopped for a moment and said to myself, "why would anyone ask this question unless to make a hideous point?"

It's got the same undertone as the "What would you do if 1200 of your people were butchered?" question. Not whatever you're doing, that's for sure!

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    Both you and @aberrate_junior_beatnik@lemmy.world conveniently left a lot of shitty things the Arabs have done to Israelis during the last 100 years from that summary, most importantly how in 1948 Israel successfully fought a war that all its neighbors started. And then another one in 1967 (although Israel did start that one pre-emptively, with amazing effectiveness). Neither party is a virtuous angel, nobody is in a war.

    That's why we should select who we support based on values and the stated end game scenarios of both these states and peoples. Which is why I'm decisively rooting for Israel and by extension also Palestine, against Hamas, because Israel is by a large margin more aligned to liberalism, other western values and modernity.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    It's like somehow you can't get it through your thick head that you can't just rob people of their land and massacre them, otherwise they retaliate.

    Framing 1948 as some kind of Israeli victory will go down the dumpster of history in style.

    "Israel fights war to successfully ethnically cleanse 700k Palestinians and destroy 500 of their villages, then claims that the Palestinians abandoned their homes, hence making them totally up for grabs. "

    Yeah that sounds lovely.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Israel is by a large margin more aligned to liberalism

    It absolutely isn't.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Compared to Palestine, way more liberal.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    In what way?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago*

    78% of israelis support gay marriage or same-sex relationship. Even among those israelis who identify as "religious", that number is 54%. Actually marrying is still a bit complicated in Israel, but people can work around that with a loophole. Meanwhile in Palestine, homosexual relations are outlawed, and being openly queer incites violence.

    Israel has elections. Palestine does not.

    Israel has freedom of press. Palestine does not.

    Israel has legislative processes. Palestine does not.

    Israel does fairly well in economic freedom. Palestine does not.

    In Israel, protests are legal and are not brutally suppressed. In Palestine, protests and dissidents are brutally suppressed.

    So in summary, in many many different ways. They are completely different worlds in terms of liberalism.

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