▲ 349 ▼ “Is Fish Meat?” One Justice’s Answer Shows Why the Supreme Court Is So Broken. (slate.com) submitted 3 years ago by negativenull@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world 116 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] jackalope@lemmy.ml 52 points 3 years ago (4 children) Education is knowing that tomatoes are a fruit. Wisdom is knowing to not put them on a fruit salad. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 52 points 3 years ago (3 children) Perspective is knowing that botanists and dieticians can have different definitions for what fruit is. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tastysnacks@programming.dev 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why can't they just get their shit together? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 13 points 3 years ago (1 child) Too much fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Thecornershop@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) I would suggest not enough fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Moral fiber and dietary fiber are different. Lol permalink fedilink source parent [–] lemann@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago* Never thought about things that way, interesting permalink fedilink source parent [–] jackalope@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 years ago Agreed. permalink fedilink source parent [–] DrPop@lemmy.one 7 points 3 years ago (6 children) I'm gonna use my food wisdom to devise a tomato fruit salad just to spite this comment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] NorthernDreams@lemmy.world 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) A tomato fruit salad is a salsa permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago* Unless you simmer it with garlic, herbs, and red wine. Then it's gravy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Iusedtobeanadventurer@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago How about a watermelon gazpacho soup? That would be a fruit soup, which when served cold (as it should be) is effectively a blended fruit salad smoothie permalink fedilink source parent [–] TipRing@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Salsa is basically fruit salad. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago https://www.stonehollowfarmstead.com/products/tomato-vanilla-jam I've had a similar one. It's decent with cheese like manchego but it's strange. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cameli_Hostis@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Just put ketchup on an apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Tomatos are evil though -Source my autistic ass permalink fedilink source parent [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago (2 children) While this has become a popular saying the more interesting portion I found is that science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation. Culture tends to taxonomize by useage and by weight of historical value bias. Both are valid because their aims are to do entirely different things. One is to make the study of something more efficient and the other is to inform it's everyday instance of use. However I find it very unnerving when a judge cares only for cultural precedent and not other ethical systems of determining what is just. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Kethal@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Modern taxonomy is based on ancestory. Similarity of form and behavior are ways of assessing ancestory, but they are no longer the basis of the taxonomy itself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You act as though there is only one correct taxonomy. Scientific taxonomy is determined that way - not cultural taxonomy. Different cultures and language groups taxonomize things in their own way. Like if you are speaking a native Botswanan language things are not divided by plant or animal it is sorted into Things you can eat Things that can harm you "Useless" things Algonquin language distinguishes animate and inanimate but while plants are generally inanimate somethings like feathers are considered animate. No one is suggesting these taxonomies should be how we categorize things scientifically but at the same time they are not "wrong". Being able to accept multiple taxonomy systems as functionally correct is nessisary for being able to make useful judgements. In English a blackberry is culturally a berry. We harvest and use it as a berry and have named it thusly while botanically it is an aggregate drupe. Something that helps us interpret it as something closer to a stone fruit. Hence calling it a berry is not wrong. Just not fulfilling the requirements of every available taxonomy. People who are obsessed with being "correct" often latch onto scientific taxonomy but there are risks to creating hierarchy where there is only one right answer that flattens nuanced issues. Is a fish meat? The level of adhereance to a single answer reveals the individual cultural bias of the individual. Respecting more than one answer means you can better empathize and understand where that person comes from. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kethal@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You said "science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation". I am saying that modern science does not form taxonomies on those bases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) If you are talking about the branch of scientific taxonomy that deals with biology only then yes. But biology is not the only branch of science that sorts things into categories. Chemistry, Psychology, Geology etc. all have different taxonomic principles based in similarity, behaviour and formation. It is fair I probably should have mentioned ancestry in the case of biology as it's usually the first (and often only) thing people think of when they hear the word "taxonomy" but I admit glossed it over. Probably since the taxonomy originally being referred to was botony, specifically what counts as a fruit...which is based out of formation and structure of a plant's ovary. Not ancestry. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) Noted! BEAVER IS FISH, EVERYONE! LET'S EAT EM DURING LENT permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I hear rhe tails are actually quite tasty cooked up right. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Blaidd@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Idk though I love salsa, that's basically a tomato fruit salad permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 52 points 3 years ago (3 children) Perspective is knowing that botanists and dieticians can have different definitions for what fruit is. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tastysnacks@programming.dev 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why can't they just get their shit together? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 13 points 3 years ago (1 child) Too much fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Thecornershop@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) I would suggest not enough fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Moral fiber and dietary fiber are different. Lol permalink fedilink source parent [–] lemann@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago* Never thought about things that way, interesting permalink fedilink source parent [–] jackalope@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 years ago Agreed. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tastysnacks@programming.dev 8 points 3 years ago (1 child) Why can't they just get their shit together? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 13 points 3 years ago (1 child) Too much fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Thecornershop@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) I would suggest not enough fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Moral fiber and dietary fiber are different. Lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 13 points 3 years ago (1 child) Too much fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Thecornershop@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) I would suggest not enough fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Moral fiber and dietary fiber are different. Lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Thecornershop@lemmy.world 4 points 3 years ago (1 child) I would suggest not enough fiber permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Moral fiber and dietary fiber are different. Lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Moral fiber and dietary fiber are different. Lol permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lemann@lemmy.one 5 points 3 years ago* Never thought about things that way, interesting permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DrPop@lemmy.one 7 points 3 years ago (6 children) I'm gonna use my food wisdom to devise a tomato fruit salad just to spite this comment. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] NorthernDreams@lemmy.world 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) A tomato fruit salad is a salsa permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago* Unless you simmer it with garlic, herbs, and red wine. Then it's gravy. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Iusedtobeanadventurer@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago How about a watermelon gazpacho soup? That would be a fruit soup, which when served cold (as it should be) is effectively a blended fruit salad smoothie permalink fedilink source parent [–] TipRing@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Salsa is basically fruit salad. permalink fedilink source parent [–] HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago https://www.stonehollowfarmstead.com/products/tomato-vanilla-jam I've had a similar one. It's decent with cheese like manchego but it's strange. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cameli_Hostis@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Just put ketchup on an apple. permalink fedilink source parent [–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Tomatos are evil though -Source my autistic ass permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NorthernDreams@lemmy.world 30 points 3 years ago (1 child) A tomato fruit salad is a salsa permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago* Unless you simmer it with garlic, herbs, and red wine. Then it's gravy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago* Unless you simmer it with garlic, herbs, and red wine. Then it's gravy. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Iusedtobeanadventurer@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago How about a watermelon gazpacho soup? That would be a fruit soup, which when served cold (as it should be) is effectively a blended fruit salad smoothie permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Salsa is basically fruit salad. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago https://www.stonehollowfarmstead.com/products/tomato-vanilla-jam I've had a similar one. It's decent with cheese like manchego but it's strange. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cameli_Hostis@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago Just put ketchup on an apple. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago Tomatos are evil though -Source my autistic ass permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 7 points 3 years ago (2 children) While this has become a popular saying the more interesting portion I found is that science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation. Culture tends to taxonomize by useage and by weight of historical value bias. Both are valid because their aims are to do entirely different things. One is to make the study of something more efficient and the other is to inform it's everyday instance of use. However I find it very unnerving when a judge cares only for cultural precedent and not other ethical systems of determining what is just. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Kethal@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Modern taxonomy is based on ancestory. Similarity of form and behavior are ways of assessing ancestory, but they are no longer the basis of the taxonomy itself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You act as though there is only one correct taxonomy. Scientific taxonomy is determined that way - not cultural taxonomy. Different cultures and language groups taxonomize things in their own way. Like if you are speaking a native Botswanan language things are not divided by plant or animal it is sorted into Things you can eat Things that can harm you "Useless" things Algonquin language distinguishes animate and inanimate but while plants are generally inanimate somethings like feathers are considered animate. No one is suggesting these taxonomies should be how we categorize things scientifically but at the same time they are not "wrong". Being able to accept multiple taxonomy systems as functionally correct is nessisary for being able to make useful judgements. In English a blackberry is culturally a berry. We harvest and use it as a berry and have named it thusly while botanically it is an aggregate drupe. Something that helps us interpret it as something closer to a stone fruit. Hence calling it a berry is not wrong. Just not fulfilling the requirements of every available taxonomy. People who are obsessed with being "correct" often latch onto scientific taxonomy but there are risks to creating hierarchy where there is only one right answer that flattens nuanced issues. Is a fish meat? The level of adhereance to a single answer reveals the individual cultural bias of the individual. Respecting more than one answer means you can better empathize and understand where that person comes from. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kethal@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You said "science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation". I am saying that modern science does not form taxonomies on those bases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) If you are talking about the branch of scientific taxonomy that deals with biology only then yes. But biology is not the only branch of science that sorts things into categories. Chemistry, Psychology, Geology etc. all have different taxonomic principles based in similarity, behaviour and formation. It is fair I probably should have mentioned ancestry in the case of biology as it's usually the first (and often only) thing people think of when they hear the word "taxonomy" but I admit glossed it over. Probably since the taxonomy originally being referred to was botony, specifically what counts as a fruit...which is based out of formation and structure of a plant's ovary. Not ancestry. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) Noted! BEAVER IS FISH, EVERYONE! LET'S EAT EM DURING LENT permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I hear rhe tails are actually quite tasty cooked up right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kethal@lemmy.world 8 points 3 years ago* (1 child) Modern taxonomy is based on ancestory. Similarity of form and behavior are ways of assessing ancestory, but they are no longer the basis of the taxonomy itself. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You act as though there is only one correct taxonomy. Scientific taxonomy is determined that way - not cultural taxonomy. Different cultures and language groups taxonomize things in their own way. Like if you are speaking a native Botswanan language things are not divided by plant or animal it is sorted into Things you can eat Things that can harm you "Useless" things Algonquin language distinguishes animate and inanimate but while plants are generally inanimate somethings like feathers are considered animate. No one is suggesting these taxonomies should be how we categorize things scientifically but at the same time they are not "wrong". Being able to accept multiple taxonomy systems as functionally correct is nessisary for being able to make useful judgements. In English a blackberry is culturally a berry. We harvest and use it as a berry and have named it thusly while botanically it is an aggregate drupe. Something that helps us interpret it as something closer to a stone fruit. Hence calling it a berry is not wrong. Just not fulfilling the requirements of every available taxonomy. People who are obsessed with being "correct" often latch onto scientific taxonomy but there are risks to creating hierarchy where there is only one right answer that flattens nuanced issues. Is a fish meat? The level of adhereance to a single answer reveals the individual cultural bias of the individual. Respecting more than one answer means you can better empathize and understand where that person comes from. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kethal@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You said "science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation". I am saying that modern science does not form taxonomies on those bases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) If you are talking about the branch of scientific taxonomy that deals with biology only then yes. But biology is not the only branch of science that sorts things into categories. Chemistry, Psychology, Geology etc. all have different taxonomic principles based in similarity, behaviour and formation. It is fair I probably should have mentioned ancestry in the case of biology as it's usually the first (and often only) thing people think of when they hear the word "taxonomy" but I admit glossed it over. Probably since the taxonomy originally being referred to was botony, specifically what counts as a fruit...which is based out of formation and structure of a plant's ovary. Not ancestry. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You act as though there is only one correct taxonomy. Scientific taxonomy is determined that way - not cultural taxonomy. Different cultures and language groups taxonomize things in their own way. Like if you are speaking a native Botswanan language things are not divided by plant or animal it is sorted into Things you can eat Things that can harm you "Useless" things Algonquin language distinguishes animate and inanimate but while plants are generally inanimate somethings like feathers are considered animate. No one is suggesting these taxonomies should be how we categorize things scientifically but at the same time they are not "wrong". Being able to accept multiple taxonomy systems as functionally correct is nessisary for being able to make useful judgements. In English a blackberry is culturally a berry. We harvest and use it as a berry and have named it thusly while botanically it is an aggregate drupe. Something that helps us interpret it as something closer to a stone fruit. Hence calling it a berry is not wrong. Just not fulfilling the requirements of every available taxonomy. People who are obsessed with being "correct" often latch onto scientific taxonomy but there are risks to creating hierarchy where there is only one right answer that flattens nuanced issues. Is a fish meat? The level of adhereance to a single answer reveals the individual cultural bias of the individual. Respecting more than one answer means you can better empathize and understand where that person comes from. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Kethal@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You said "science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation". I am saying that modern science does not form taxonomies on those bases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) If you are talking about the branch of scientific taxonomy that deals with biology only then yes. But biology is not the only branch of science that sorts things into categories. Chemistry, Psychology, Geology etc. all have different taxonomic principles based in similarity, behaviour and formation. It is fair I probably should have mentioned ancestry in the case of biology as it's usually the first (and often only) thing people think of when they hear the word "taxonomy" but I admit glossed it over. Probably since the taxonomy originally being referred to was botony, specifically what counts as a fruit...which is based out of formation and structure of a plant's ovary. Not ancestry. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Kethal@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) You said "science tends to taxonomize by similarity, form and behaviour in isolation". I am saying that modern science does not form taxonomies on those bases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) If you are talking about the branch of scientific taxonomy that deals with biology only then yes. But biology is not the only branch of science that sorts things into categories. Chemistry, Psychology, Geology etc. all have different taxonomic principles based in similarity, behaviour and formation. It is fair I probably should have mentioned ancestry in the case of biology as it's usually the first (and often only) thing people think of when they hear the word "taxonomy" but I admit glossed it over. Probably since the taxonomy originally being referred to was botony, specifically what counts as a fruit...which is based out of formation and structure of a plant's ovary. Not ancestry. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) If you are talking about the branch of scientific taxonomy that deals with biology only then yes. But biology is not the only branch of science that sorts things into categories. Chemistry, Psychology, Geology etc. all have different taxonomic principles based in similarity, behaviour and formation. It is fair I probably should have mentioned ancestry in the case of biology as it's usually the first (and often only) thing people think of when they hear the word "taxonomy" but I admit glossed it over. Probably since the taxonomy originally being referred to was botony, specifically what counts as a fruit...which is based out of formation and structure of a plant's ovary. Not ancestry. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 1 point 3 years ago (1 child) Noted! BEAVER IS FISH, EVERYONE! LET'S EAT EM DURING LENT permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I hear rhe tails are actually quite tasty cooked up right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world 1 point 3 years ago* I hear rhe tails are actually quite tasty cooked up right. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blaidd@lemmy.world 3 points 3 years ago Idk though I love salsa, that's basically a tomato fruit salad permalink fedilink source parent