this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2023

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Paris mayor plans to triple SUV parking tariffs to cut air pollution (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 2 years ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/europe@feddit.de

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[+] afrom@feddit.de -19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

They allowed the US SUV and pickup fashion to swap over to Europe (20 years ago there was little to none of those on European roads) so that when people are buying them, they get punished for doing so!? My point is, why the majority is acting like it is only the ordinary people's fault?

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[–] albert180@feddit.de 22 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

If you buy a more expensive car that just consumes a lot more fuel and space without any benefit you shouldn't complain about paying more or policy measures to minimise that

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[–] afrom@feddit.de -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

In that case you pay much higher taxes already ...at least in my country

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[–] albert180@feddit.de 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Define "Much higher"

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

A lot higher, double, triple or ever more. Depends on the CO2 emissions of the particular vehicle so bigger engine, more power, more weight, less aerodynamics, higher consumption means higher taxes. This is of course for combustion vehicles ...don't know about the EVs, never owned one

"If you buy a more expensive car ..."

Oh and by the way, the vehicles price has nothing to do with emissions and so on.

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[–] albert180@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

SUVs are usually more expensive than a car the same size in a non-SUV-Version.

The SUV Version of a vehicle of the same size is usually more expensive.

Just curious, from which country are you from. And what's the average price for vehicle tax?

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

I'm from Romania but I actually have business in Germany so I'm resident in both countries. It's pretty much the same for both, just a bit lower for RO. For example a 1.2L vehicle with about 80hp is something like ~90€ but a 2L vehicle with 300hp will be ~250€ and a 4L vehicle with 600hp will cost ~620€ so it's ramping up a lot.

Of course you are right, an SUV is usually more expensive. I don't care to much about SUVs because I don't like them, I don't like the looks.

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[–] Schmuppes@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

In Germany, you pay your taxes per 100 cc of displacement and emisssions. It has always been that way, but it changes very little in your overall cost calculation. I drive an older VW Golf with a 1.4 petrol engine. That costs 94 € per year in taxes. Considering insurance, running costs and purchase of the vehicle, that's almost nothing.

What I mean is: Having a big engine isn't a lot more expensive over here. The tax laws are not based on fuel economy or vehicle weight or size. I could have a car with a 3 Liter engine that weighs twice as much as my Golf, and I wouldn't care if I wanted that fabulous SUV experience.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

that weighs twice as much as my Golf, and I wouldn't care if I wanted that fabulous SUV experience.

Pls don't exagerate ..your Golf is around 1.5 tons and a mid-range SUV will be 1.7-1.8t max. Now for example VW Tiguan or Seat Ateca are fabulous? Those are mid-range cars, just like your Golf but SUVs

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[–] Schmuppes@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

My Golf is a tad below 1.2 tons, but that's beside my point.

The thing about those "mid-range" SUVs is that they are worse in every measurable aspect when it comes to environmental impact. A couple months ago, I compared a VW Golf with a VW Tiguan, both with the same engine. The Tiguan is heavier, uses more fuel and is bigger (space it takes in the city) than the Golf. Both have the same engine, both accommodate 4-5 people and get you to your destination dry and warm.

The "compact" SUV is worse off in every objective category, and I'm not even getting into manufacturing CO2 or things like pedestrian safety. Off-road vehicles have their practical uses. SUVs don't, for the vast majority of owners.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago

Again, I'm not advocating for SUVs, I don't even like them, I'm advocating for the ordinary people which I belong to, I don't want us te get ripped off by the govts, that's it.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago*

The displacement cc and emissions are main factors but as I know what also affects it's certain ranges of year of construnction.

The tax laws are not based on fuel economy or vehicle weight or size

Now the emissions are for sure affected by the weight of the vehicle and also by aerodynamics therefore SUVs should be higher in tax but that's only logic so not sure if and how much.

What I mean is: Having a big engine isn't a lot more expensive over here.

So my top example, the 4L 600hp 620€ tax, isn't much higher then your example, the 1.4L (I would guess around 100hp) 90€ tax? Are you serious about that?

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[–] domi@lemmy.secnd.me 13 points 2 years ago (1 child)

why the majority is acting like it is the ordinary people's fault?

Because it is. The market produces what consumers buy.

If nobody buys SUVs, nobody produces SUVs. It's 100% on the consumer in the EU, there's enough other cars available.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

Partly correct ...market produces what consumers buy but here was no such things like SUVs and pickups so they needed to introduce them so ppl can buy. It's basically marketing 1st. Marketing has a huge influence

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[–] ElmarsonTheThird@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago

They didn't need to introduce them, they saw the opportunity to do so. Besides, there's always been the possibility to buy a utilitarian pick up truck but they're work vehicles.

It's just supply and demand. Someone offers SUVs and Trucks, people buy them all, other companies offer more of the same. So of course, everyone who wanted to buy one made the concious decision to do so. The consumers are, in fact, responsible for their actions.

Guess why there are so few station wagons in the US now, as opposed to the 1980s. People wanted bigger cars and the market phased out the more sensible, but less desired option.

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[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 years ago (1 child)

There is no fault. No punishment. Just choices. And other people’s choices.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Of course that was meant figuratively, I thought that was clear

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[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Obviously.

Your choice of metaphors however clearly implies you see yourself as a victim, or at the very least a wronged party. I wanted to forcefully push back against that framing.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

No I don't see myself as a victim. Never owned an SUV and most likely never will because I don't like them and also I don't live in France so it's pointless however.

I wanted to forcefully push back against that framing

By doing so you do demonstrate that you allowed yourself to be instrumentalized. Maybe one day you guys will understand but of course that's up to you.

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[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Word salad says what?

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Nothing my friend ...give everything you earn (if you do) to the govt. Have a good life without cars and flights. All is up to you, life is short.

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[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

give everything you earn (if you do) to the govt

First of all, we’re talking about parking fees in Paris. They are very very high, but not quite that expensive.

Second, you need to have some cash left over for the Illuminati, the NWO and the world economic forum man.

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[–] afrom@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Who ist talking about those things!? TF is wrong with u? Why I'm even wasting my time

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[–] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago

I’ll give you one thing, you are wasting your time.

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