β² 1261 βΌ Linus does not fuck around (lemmy.one) submitted 2 years ago by AdventuringAardvark@lemmy.one to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world 488 comments fedilink hide all child comments An oldie, but a goodie
[β] db2@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago (3 children) I'll be that guy: I miss the old Linus. If I fucked up that badly I'd want to know I had fucked up that badly. permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] yiliu@informis.land 7 points 2 years ago (3 children) Yeah, it's kind of invigorating to see somebody speak so plainly. No "There's a couple issues we should maybe discuss", no "Let's loop back on that sometime", no "Hmm, is that really the best approach? Do you have any documentation?" Just a straightforward "Dude, this is shit! Here's some reasons why!"" Having worked for a decade in tech, I would love it of people were this direct. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] Azzu@lemm.ee 36 points 2 years ago* (1 child) It's perfectly possible to say "this is unacceptable, we never break userspace. Mauro, your change is obviously what is breaking userspace because ..." without adding "SHUT THE FUCK UP" or "[all of this is] TOTAL CRAP", i.e. being direct without being derogatory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago I mean, that's fair, and as was pointed out elsewhere Linus has sought help for his temper. On the other hand, for all the talk of how "unprofessional" it was for him to behave this way, he did shepherd an OS kernel from a hobby project to the most popular OS on the planet (with the possible exception of Minix, apparently...) I agree that polite directness might be better, bu IMHO the more common polite indirectness and avoidance of any hint of conflict is clearly worse. permalink fedilink source parent [β] rainynight65@feddit.de 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) Having worked in tech for two and a half decades, and in places that were this direct - no thanks. There's a fine line between being clear and direct, and being toxic - what Torvalds did here was toxic, and in many workplaces of today would be classed as bullying. Being subjected to this 'directness' for any given amount of time will do a number on most people's personality and self-esteem. People don't improve themselves if all you do is shit on them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] lobut@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago Agreed. I think it's amusing to observe. Being around it yourself is quite difficult. Being the target of it sucks and having your peer go off the deep end and finding a way to reel them in sucks too. permalink fedilink source parent [β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago Fair. I've worked in tech for just over a decade now, and I've only been in the polar opposite environment, and found it sorta suffocating. Everybody knows this guy is pumping out crap, and every bug in the system comes from his part of the code, but well...if anybody says it, or even hints it, they're being unnecessarily confrontational, and nobody ever gives anything but positive feedback in peer reviews. I feel, from my limited experience, like the 90s might have been peak machismo rock star hacker work culture, and the pendulum has now swung to the very far side. permalink fedilink source parent [+] war@kbin.social -13 points 2 years ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] db2@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago* If you'd left that last cringey part off it would have been perfection. Dumbass. permalink fedilink source parent [β] yiliu@informis.land 2 points 2 years ago Well that's pretty hilariously ironic. I'm nothing like this, I wish I were more comfortable being direct. But meanwhile, you heap abuse on me and threaten to beat me up because I said "boy, it's nice to see someone speaking directly". You're much worse than Torvalds, and I completely agree it would be a terrible idea for us to ever work together. Or for you to work with anyone else, for that matter. permalink fedilink source parent [β] PixxlMan@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago It's a commit that can be rolled back. Not even the worst commit to a development branch can ever be that bad of a fuck up. permalink fedilink source parent [β] AffineConnection@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* One can sternly address serious mistakes by a subordinate without being outright mean about it. Doing so calmly and seriously is usually more effective anyway. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] yiliu@informis.land 7 points 2 years ago (3 children) Yeah, it's kind of invigorating to see somebody speak so plainly. No "There's a couple issues we should maybe discuss", no "Let's loop back on that sometime", no "Hmm, is that really the best approach? Do you have any documentation?" Just a straightforward "Dude, this is shit! Here's some reasons why!"" Having worked for a decade in tech, I would love it of people were this direct. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [β] Azzu@lemm.ee 36 points 2 years ago* (1 child) It's perfectly possible to say "this is unacceptable, we never break userspace. Mauro, your change is obviously what is breaking userspace because ..." without adding "SHUT THE FUCK UP" or "[all of this is] TOTAL CRAP", i.e. being direct without being derogatory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago I mean, that's fair, and as was pointed out elsewhere Linus has sought help for his temper. On the other hand, for all the talk of how "unprofessional" it was for him to behave this way, he did shepherd an OS kernel from a hobby project to the most popular OS on the planet (with the possible exception of Minix, apparently...) I agree that polite directness might be better, bu IMHO the more common polite indirectness and avoidance of any hint of conflict is clearly worse. permalink fedilink source parent [β] rainynight65@feddit.de 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) Having worked in tech for two and a half decades, and in places that were this direct - no thanks. There's a fine line between being clear and direct, and being toxic - what Torvalds did here was toxic, and in many workplaces of today would be classed as bullying. Being subjected to this 'directness' for any given amount of time will do a number on most people's personality and self-esteem. People don't improve themselves if all you do is shit on them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] lobut@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago Agreed. I think it's amusing to observe. Being around it yourself is quite difficult. Being the target of it sucks and having your peer go off the deep end and finding a way to reel them in sucks too. permalink fedilink source parent [β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago Fair. I've worked in tech for just over a decade now, and I've only been in the polar opposite environment, and found it sorta suffocating. Everybody knows this guy is pumping out crap, and every bug in the system comes from his part of the code, but well...if anybody says it, or even hints it, they're being unnecessarily confrontational, and nobody ever gives anything but positive feedback in peer reviews. I feel, from my limited experience, like the 90s might have been peak machismo rock star hacker work culture, and the pendulum has now swung to the very far side. permalink fedilink source parent [+] war@kbin.social -13 points 2 years ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] db2@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago* If you'd left that last cringey part off it would have been perfection. Dumbass. permalink fedilink source parent [β] yiliu@informis.land 2 points 2 years ago Well that's pretty hilariously ironic. I'm nothing like this, I wish I were more comfortable being direct. But meanwhile, you heap abuse on me and threaten to beat me up because I said "boy, it's nice to see someone speaking directly". You're much worse than Torvalds, and I completely agree it would be a terrible idea for us to ever work together. Or for you to work with anyone else, for that matter. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] Azzu@lemm.ee 36 points 2 years ago* (1 child) It's perfectly possible to say "this is unacceptable, we never break userspace. Mauro, your change is obviously what is breaking userspace because ..." without adding "SHUT THE FUCK UP" or "[all of this is] TOTAL CRAP", i.e. being direct without being derogatory. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago I mean, that's fair, and as was pointed out elsewhere Linus has sought help for his temper. On the other hand, for all the talk of how "unprofessional" it was for him to behave this way, he did shepherd an OS kernel from a hobby project to the most popular OS on the planet (with the possible exception of Minix, apparently...) I agree that polite directness might be better, bu IMHO the more common polite indirectness and avoidance of any hint of conflict is clearly worse. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago I mean, that's fair, and as was pointed out elsewhere Linus has sought help for his temper. On the other hand, for all the talk of how "unprofessional" it was for him to behave this way, he did shepherd an OS kernel from a hobby project to the most popular OS on the planet (with the possible exception of Minix, apparently...) I agree that polite directness might be better, bu IMHO the more common polite indirectness and avoidance of any hint of conflict is clearly worse. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] rainynight65@feddit.de 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) Having worked in tech for two and a half decades, and in places that were this direct - no thanks. There's a fine line between being clear and direct, and being toxic - what Torvalds did here was toxic, and in many workplaces of today would be classed as bullying. Being subjected to this 'directness' for any given amount of time will do a number on most people's personality and self-esteem. People don't improve themselves if all you do is shit on them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] lobut@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago Agreed. I think it's amusing to observe. Being around it yourself is quite difficult. Being the target of it sucks and having your peer go off the deep end and finding a way to reel them in sucks too. permalink fedilink source parent [β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago Fair. I've worked in tech for just over a decade now, and I've only been in the polar opposite environment, and found it sorta suffocating. Everybody knows this guy is pumping out crap, and every bug in the system comes from his part of the code, but well...if anybody says it, or even hints it, they're being unnecessarily confrontational, and nobody ever gives anything but positive feedback in peer reviews. I feel, from my limited experience, like the 90s might have been peak machismo rock star hacker work culture, and the pendulum has now swung to the very far side. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] lobut@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago Agreed. I think it's amusing to observe. Being around it yourself is quite difficult. Being the target of it sucks and having your peer go off the deep end and finding a way to reel them in sucks too. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] yiliu@informis.land 1 point 2 years ago Fair. I've worked in tech for just over a decade now, and I've only been in the polar opposite environment, and found it sorta suffocating. Everybody knows this guy is pumping out crap, and every bug in the system comes from his part of the code, but well...if anybody says it, or even hints it, they're being unnecessarily confrontational, and nobody ever gives anything but positive feedback in peer reviews. I feel, from my limited experience, like the 90s might have been peak machismo rock star hacker work culture, and the pendulum has now swung to the very far side. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] war@kbin.social -13 points 2 years ago (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [β] db2@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago* If you'd left that last cringey part off it would have been perfection. Dumbass. permalink fedilink source parent [β] yiliu@informis.land 2 points 2 years ago Well that's pretty hilariously ironic. I'm nothing like this, I wish I were more comfortable being direct. But meanwhile, you heap abuse on me and threaten to beat me up because I said "boy, it's nice to see someone speaking directly". You're much worse than Torvalds, and I completely agree it would be a terrible idea for us to ever work together. Or for you to work with anyone else, for that matter. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] db2@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago* If you'd left that last cringey part off it would have been perfection. Dumbass. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] yiliu@informis.land 2 points 2 years ago Well that's pretty hilariously ironic. I'm nothing like this, I wish I were more comfortable being direct. But meanwhile, you heap abuse on me and threaten to beat me up because I said "boy, it's nice to see someone speaking directly". You're much worse than Torvalds, and I completely agree it would be a terrible idea for us to ever work together. Or for you to work with anyone else, for that matter. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] PixxlMan@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago It's a commit that can be rolled back. Not even the worst commit to a development branch can ever be that bad of a fuck up. permalink fedilink source parent
[β] AffineConnection@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* One can sternly address serious mistakes by a subordinate without being outright mean about it. Doing so calmly and seriously is usually more effective anyway. permalink fedilink source parent
