201
Toyota trials hydrogen-powered vehicle on public roads in Australia (japantoday.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
90 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 17 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Why hydrogen? Why not electric at this point?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Because Toyota invested a lot into hydrogen instead of EV, and they need to recuperate at least some of it.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Honestly I'm glad that somebody is exploring other environmentally friendly alternatives too, nothing wrong with having options.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Kind of? Hydrogen can be environmentally friendly, but EVs have big advantages:

    • Creating and burning hydrogen is way less efficient than EVs (almost an order of magnitude)
    • Hydrogen is much cheaper to create in environmentally unfriendly ways (using natural gas etc.)
    • Unless we have massive overproduction of power, the additional energy can be better used to de-carbonify other processes with larger impact
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    That's why generating hydrogen during off-peak hours from a nuclear power plant will be very beneficial. It may be less efficient but way better for the environment then lithium

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    While most car companies initially believed liion batteries isnt ready for the market, and wanted to wait for a more safe and dense battery tech to hit market (solid state battery), toyota invested in hydrogen. Then Tesla took the bullet and sort of went against thr grain and created the liion based evs, and the rest of the companies are scrambling to catch up due to the demand for them.

    Any push for hydrogen is because toyota invested into it and doesnt want for it to go to waste.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It's not just Toyota that invested in the tech, a bunch of other big names did as well. Hydrogen makes sense for everyone who doesn't live in cities.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    How do you figure? Everyone who doesn't live in big cities has the ability to charge an EV overnight, or in half an hour when road tripping. Absolutely none of them live within hundreds of miles of hydrogen refueling station.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    Unless you have a quick charge at your house, or live in an area with one, you're not getting 30min quick charge at all. I'm 50 miles from the capital city in my state and we don't have any quick charge stations here. Anywhere. You really seem to be underestimating the size of the USA.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Because some companies just can't get rid of the idea of ICEs. And they don't like that their expertise in making high-quality ICEs doesn't give them much benefit in making electric cars. So they prefer hydrogen to win over electric otherwise they'll have a very hard time competing against newcomers.

    In my opinion, it's dinosaurs clinging to their old ways while the asteroid looms large in the sky.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] -4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    there are seroius longevity concerns with Lithium batteries. if you just fill the car up with combustible gas, there's no battery that is expensive to replace every 10-20 years. australia could very well be one of the best countries tp deploy this technology.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The Hydrogen tank for the Toyota Mirai literally has a replacement date of 10 years. And that's not a maybe, it has to be replaced for safety reasons.

    Modern Batteries last 10 years easy. Even the abused leaf ones with no thermal management last fine. It will not be any issue

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Could be, but I bet that hydrogen tanks is much cheaper, easier to produce and recycle. Also doesn't require rare earth materials.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    They're not comparable at all, I just said it as a reaction. The battery is more comparable to how often an engine completely dies. It doesn't, really. Especially the newer ones with proper thermal management.

    The tank is cheaper, sure. But the hydrogen itself and infrastructure isn't, and hydrogen isn't even really green 95% of the time. But that's a whole different topic.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    How is solar hydrogen collection stations that pull hydrogen out of the atmosphere not green?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    These concers exist for Hydrogen too. While the Hydrogen tanks can last a longe time, the catalyst in the Fuel cell degrades, like the electrodes of batteries do. That means that the fuel cell needs to be replaced as well after some time. In addtition to that, fuel cell vehicles need batteries as well, since the fuel cell is slow to respond to load changes. These smaller batteries are stressed heavily in stop and go traffic and will need to be replaced a lot more often than Ev batteries.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago

    This isn't a fuel cell. It's an ICE motor.

    This is why Toyota and other manufacturers are still working on hydrogen. The ICE motor to run these is pretty much the same as current petroleum based ICE motors. Until batteries can charge in 5mins and travel more than 100 miles under load, then hydrogen is the way.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent