▲ 166 ▼ Spanish rightwing politician shot in face in Madrid (www.theguardian.com) submitted 2 years ago by gigachad@feddit.de to c/europe@feddit.de 90 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Marsupial@quokk.au 71 points 2 years ago (5 children) Yeah. I don’t tolerate the intolerant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) There is a difference between not tolerating their shit and wishing people's death. Edit: spelling permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] deur@feddit.nl -1 points 2 years ago Nah. fuck em permalink fedilink source parent [–] ed_cock@feddit.de 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Violence is supposed to be the last resort to deal with them, I don't see how this is in any way helpful, good or justified. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to whom? It's no law of nature or physics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to basic self preservation. The other side have guns too. What do you think they're gonna do when you start killing their people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) they're already shooting. that's why we're mad in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) And sure, shoot at the fucker that's a threat to you. That's no justification to shoot at persons 2 and 3 that had similar belief systems but wasn't shooting at you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. That is all that matters. The world is ruled with violence. Non-violence only is beneficial to those currently in power. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. How are you going to preserve yourself when you let people run around who want to opress or kill you? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. And there are plenty of times where this is done non violently. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. Yes. As a last resort. That doesn't mean never using violence. It means using it for self preservation, not just because you disagree with them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ed_cock@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago The guy people keep partly citing when they bring up the "paradox of tolerance", for example. permalink fedilink source parent [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 2 years ago If he's still alive it's definitely not helpful, I agree permalink fedilink source parent [–] Vivarevo@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago If you tolerate the intolerant, the tolerant society shifts to intolerant. permalink fedilink source parent [–] sqgl@beehaw.org 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Wishing him dead is fine in my book (since I don't believe in magic anyhow) however encouraging assassination of political figures (as this may turn out to be) is not wise because in future it will be your guy who gets assassinated. It is in everyone's interest to have peaceful elections to sort out our differences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) "our guys" are being assasinated every day, dying from tough working conditions, starving away on the streets, getting killed by police, dying in another pointless war to see which group of rich people get to exploit a certain corner of the earth, being led to suicide by homophobic and transphobic retoric spread by these people... permalink fedilink source parent [+] gehrluke@feddit.de -24 points 2 years ago (4 children) So you do not tolerate yourself? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] lukewarmtuna@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] interolivary@beehaw.org 18 points 2 years ago* You might want to read this blog post on this subject. What I'm quoting here is the central message, but do yourself a favor and actually read the rest and don't just respond based on this quote Tolerance is not a moral absolute; it is a peace treaty. Tolerance is a social norm because it allows different people to live side-by-side without being at each other’s throats. It means that we accept that people may be different from us, in their customs, in their behavior, in their dress, in their sex lives, and that if this doesn’t directly affect our lives, it is none of our business. But the model of a peace treaty differs from the model of a moral precept in one simple way: the protection of a peace treaty only extends to those willing to abide by its terms. It is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact. When viewed through this lens, the problems above have clear answers. The antisocial member of the group, who harms other people in the group on a regular basis, need not be accepted; the purpose of your group’s acceptance is to let people feel that they have a home, and someone who actively tries to thwart this is incompatible with the broader purpose of that acceptance. Prejudice against Nazis is not the same as prejudice against Blacks, because one is based on people’s stated opposition to their neighbors’ lives and safety, the other on a characteristic that has nothing to do with whether they’ll live in peace with you or not. Freedom of religion means that people have the right to have their own beliefs, but you have that same right; you are under no duty to tolerate an attempt to impose someone else’s religious laws on you. […] If we interpreted tolerance as a moral absolute, or if our rules of conduct were entirely blind to the situation and to previous actions, then we would regard any measures taken against an aggressor as just as bad as the original aggression. But through the lens of a peace treaty, these measures have a different moral standing: they are tools which can restore the peace. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago Do you? permalink fedilink source parent [–] MedicatedMaybe@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago "It hurt itself in its confusion" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) There is a difference between not tolerating their shit and wishing people's death. Edit: spelling permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] deur@feddit.nl -1 points 2 years ago Nah. fuck em permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ed_cock@feddit.de 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Violence is supposed to be the last resort to deal with them, I don't see how this is in any way helpful, good or justified. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to whom? It's no law of nature or physics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to basic self preservation. The other side have guns too. What do you think they're gonna do when you start killing their people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) they're already shooting. that's why we're mad in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) And sure, shoot at the fucker that's a threat to you. That's no justification to shoot at persons 2 and 3 that had similar belief systems but wasn't shooting at you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. That is all that matters. The world is ruled with violence. Non-violence only is beneficial to those currently in power. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. How are you going to preserve yourself when you let people run around who want to opress or kill you? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. And there are plenty of times where this is done non violently. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. Yes. As a last resort. That doesn't mean never using violence. It means using it for self preservation, not just because you disagree with them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ed_cock@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago The guy people keep partly citing when they bring up the "paradox of tolerance", for example. permalink fedilink source parent [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 2 years ago If he's still alive it's definitely not helpful, I agree permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -4 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to whom? It's no law of nature or physics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to basic self preservation. The other side have guns too. What do you think they're gonna do when you start killing their people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) they're already shooting. that's why we're mad in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) And sure, shoot at the fucker that's a threat to you. That's no justification to shoot at persons 2 and 3 that had similar belief systems but wasn't shooting at you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. That is all that matters. The world is ruled with violence. Non-violence only is beneficial to those currently in power. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. How are you going to preserve yourself when you let people run around who want to opress or kill you? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. And there are plenty of times where this is done non violently. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. Yes. As a last resort. That doesn't mean never using violence. It means using it for self preservation, not just because you disagree with them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ed_cock@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago The guy people keep partly citing when they bring up the "paradox of tolerance", for example. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) The last resort according to basic self preservation. The other side have guns too. What do you think they're gonna do when you start killing their people? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) they're already shooting. that's why we're mad in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) And sure, shoot at the fucker that's a threat to you. That's no justification to shoot at persons 2 and 3 that had similar belief systems but wasn't shooting at you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. That is all that matters. The world is ruled with violence. Non-violence only is beneficial to those currently in power. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. How are you going to preserve yourself when you let people run around who want to opress or kill you? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. And there are plenty of times where this is done non violently. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. Yes. As a last resort. That doesn't mean never using violence. It means using it for self preservation, not just because you disagree with them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) they're already shooting. that's why we're mad in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) And sure, shoot at the fucker that's a threat to you. That's no justification to shoot at persons 2 and 3 that had similar belief systems but wasn't shooting at you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) And sure, shoot at the fucker that's a threat to you. That's no justification to shoot at persons 2 and 3 that had similar belief systems but wasn't shooting at you. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right is already directly and indirectly killing innocent people. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Oh, the entire right wing is killing people? So how much blood is on the hands of the elderly couple down the road that go to church every Sunday? Such rhetoric is not only incredibly immature and lacking of insight, it encourages the extremism that leads to violence. Grow up. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The right as in the political right wing in the context of Spain. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) Ohhh okay. So, the political right wing of Spain, which is far less prone to political violence than that of, say, America? Do you not understand how introducing violence to that equation is an even worse idea? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Violence is already in the equation. Do you want there to be no response to the attacks on marginalized groups? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) No, you said right wing in the context of Spain, of which there has been only one single incident since the 1980s, and no one was hurt or killed in that singular instance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_terrorism_in_Spain Violence is very much not in the equation in the context you yourself mentioned. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 years ago* (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they're escaping from. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) The national police did nothing wrong during the catalan referendum and riots. Wasn't a far-right thing. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of refugees by sending them back to the opressive regimes they’re escaping from. Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent. No politicians are advocating for the genocide of queer people by spreading harmful retoric that leads them to suicide. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. There are no apologists of the Franco regime in the government. And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Wasn't a far right thing yeah because using the state's police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn't sound fascist at all Executing politicians would not solve this. It would instead make the anti immigration crowd violent Just the fact that they're trying to do this already makes them violent. Spain is one of the world leaders in LGBTQ+ freedom. There is too much pro LGBTQ+ support here to make this a viable campaign platform. Making martyrs out of anti LGBTQ+ politicians will boost support for anti LGBTQ+ stances, not lower it. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? And those government officials are about as popular as holocaust deniers at a bah mitzvah. Franco apologism is literally illegal here. Even if they aren't popular, they're there, and nothing's being done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) yeah because using the state’s police to violently attack people that are literally just going to vote doesn’t sound fascist at all If you cannot tell the difference between a far right reaction and a reaction to an impending seccesion, you might be an idiot. The mere fact that you call an attempt at secession 'just going to vote' tells me you know fuck all about what went on. Spoiler alert: an unauthorized attempt at seccesion will end in the use of force in just about any country. Not to say that I don't think the Catalans should have a shot at independence, but your painting the actions of the Spanish government as far right violence is ... Incredibly fucking stupid. Just the fact that they’re trying to do this already makes them violent. If you cannot tell apart anti immigration rhetoric from actual violence, you might be an idiot. Or extremely sheltered. So we should let fascists that want to completely eliminate queer people from our society have political power because mmm violence so scary? If you cannot tell the difference between 'let them yell into a nearly empty room' and 'let them kill all the LGBTQ+', you might be an idiot. Even if they aren’t popular, they’re there, and nothing’s being done about it. Because the people with these views aren't doing shit with them. Thus there isn't much to punish for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago* (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. That is all that matters. The world is ruled with violence. Non-violence only is beneficial to those currently in power. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. How are you going to preserve yourself when you let people run around who want to opress or kill you? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. And there are plenty of times where this is done non violently. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. Yes. As a last resort. That doesn't mean never using violence. It means using it for self preservation, not just because you disagree with them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) One side is gonna lose in the end. And there are plenty of times where this is done non violently. Basic self-preservation as you put it requires violence. Yes. As a last resort. That doesn't mean never using violence. It means using it for self preservation, not just because you disagree with them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) As a last resort is too late. If you can use violence successfully, it justifies itself. Waiting for when it's time for the last resort is too late. You're not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. The same applies to any political movement. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) You’re not going to stop the nazis in the spring of 1933, you would have needed to kill them in the 20s, a decade before they came to power. Except such thinking was how we got the Nazis in the first place. Hitler co-opted unions and parties who were extremised by such responses, and these were the basis of the Nazi party. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) No the reason why we got the Nazis in the first place is because liberal institutions allowed them to exist and participate. It was mainly the fault of the German social democratic party. Violence is how to prevent them. For anything you can criticize the Soviet Union for, any fascist movement there would have been squashed with extreme prejudice. Just like anyone even close to fascism ideologically was terrorised. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] 520@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) Ah yes, because violence people who think differently to you has never led to extremism and said violence being returned to you...apart from the many, many times that it has. Seriously, if you think that initiating violence against right wingers is going to lead to anything except right wing extremists using violence on everyone else, you really need to look at your history books again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent [–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 point 2 years ago "think differently than you" is very different to "i think you and everyone like you should die because of your skin colour and/or gender" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago You're the one who needs to read some history books if you think violence isn't the solution. It's the only solution that works. Fascists using violence back isn't a counter-argument. That's only logical and part of the equation. But better than for just on the aspect of fascism, I'd really recommend Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorrel, before you condemn violence to be a last resort and inferior to pacifism or civil debate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ed_cock@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago The guy people keep partly citing when they bring up the "paradox of tolerance", for example. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone -4 points 2 years ago If he's still alive it's definitely not helpful, I agree permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Vivarevo@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 years ago If you tolerate the intolerant, the tolerant society shifts to intolerant. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sqgl@beehaw.org 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Wishing him dead is fine in my book (since I don't believe in magic anyhow) however encouraging assassination of political figures (as this may turn out to be) is not wise because in future it will be your guy who gets assassinated. It is in everyone's interest to have peaceful elections to sort out our differences. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) "our guys" are being assasinated every day, dying from tough working conditions, starving away on the streets, getting killed by police, dying in another pointless war to see which group of rich people get to exploit a certain corner of the earth, being led to suicide by homophobic and transphobic retoric spread by these people... permalink fedilink source parent
[–] krimsonbun@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) "our guys" are being assasinated every day, dying from tough working conditions, starving away on the streets, getting killed by police, dying in another pointless war to see which group of rich people get to exploit a certain corner of the earth, being led to suicide by homophobic and transphobic retoric spread by these people... permalink fedilink source parent
[+] gehrluke@feddit.de -24 points 2 years ago (4 children) So you do not tolerate yourself? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] lukewarmtuna@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago permalink fedilink source parent [–] interolivary@beehaw.org 18 points 2 years ago* You might want to read this blog post on this subject. What I'm quoting here is the central message, but do yourself a favor and actually read the rest and don't just respond based on this quote Tolerance is not a moral absolute; it is a peace treaty. Tolerance is a social norm because it allows different people to live side-by-side without being at each other’s throats. It means that we accept that people may be different from us, in their customs, in their behavior, in their dress, in their sex lives, and that if this doesn’t directly affect our lives, it is none of our business. But the model of a peace treaty differs from the model of a moral precept in one simple way: the protection of a peace treaty only extends to those willing to abide by its terms. It is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact. When viewed through this lens, the problems above have clear answers. The antisocial member of the group, who harms other people in the group on a regular basis, need not be accepted; the purpose of your group’s acceptance is to let people feel that they have a home, and someone who actively tries to thwart this is incompatible with the broader purpose of that acceptance. Prejudice against Nazis is not the same as prejudice against Blacks, because one is based on people’s stated opposition to their neighbors’ lives and safety, the other on a characteristic that has nothing to do with whether they’ll live in peace with you or not. Freedom of religion means that people have the right to have their own beliefs, but you have that same right; you are under no duty to tolerate an attempt to impose someone else’s religious laws on you. […] If we interpreted tolerance as a moral absolute, or if our rules of conduct were entirely blind to the situation and to previous actions, then we would regard any measures taken against an aggressor as just as bad as the original aggression. But through the lens of a peace treaty, these measures have a different moral standing: they are tools which can restore the peace. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago Do you? permalink fedilink source parent [–] MedicatedMaybe@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago "It hurt itself in its confusion" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] interolivary@beehaw.org 18 points 2 years ago* You might want to read this blog post on this subject. What I'm quoting here is the central message, but do yourself a favor and actually read the rest and don't just respond based on this quote Tolerance is not a moral absolute; it is a peace treaty. Tolerance is a social norm because it allows different people to live side-by-side without being at each other’s throats. It means that we accept that people may be different from us, in their customs, in their behavior, in their dress, in their sex lives, and that if this doesn’t directly affect our lives, it is none of our business. But the model of a peace treaty differs from the model of a moral precept in one simple way: the protection of a peace treaty only extends to those willing to abide by its terms. It is an agreement to live in peace, not an agreement to be peaceful no matter the conduct of others. A peace treaty is not a suicide pact. When viewed through this lens, the problems above have clear answers. The antisocial member of the group, who harms other people in the group on a regular basis, need not be accepted; the purpose of your group’s acceptance is to let people feel that they have a home, and someone who actively tries to thwart this is incompatible with the broader purpose of that acceptance. Prejudice against Nazis is not the same as prejudice against Blacks, because one is based on people’s stated opposition to their neighbors’ lives and safety, the other on a characteristic that has nothing to do with whether they’ll live in peace with you or not. Freedom of religion means that people have the right to have their own beliefs, but you have that same right; you are under no duty to tolerate an attempt to impose someone else’s religious laws on you. […] If we interpreted tolerance as a moral absolute, or if our rules of conduct were entirely blind to the situation and to previous actions, then we would regard any measures taken against an aggressor as just as bad as the original aggression. But through the lens of a peace treaty, these measures have a different moral standing: they are tools which can restore the peace. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MedicatedMaybe@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago "It hurt itself in its confusion" permalink fedilink source parent