▲ 519 ▼ Meet Nightshade, the new tool allowing artists to ‘poison’ AI models with corrupted training data (venturebeat.com) submitted 2 years ago by Salamendacious@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world 118 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 75 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 36 points 2 years ago (3 children) It's going to be an arms race permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 58 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 23 points 2 years ago (2 children) The scary thing about this joke is that ai has been able to do hands for a relatively long time now. its going much faster then people are able to process. The thumbnail in this article is by Dalle-3 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Yeah, by the time the joke was really making the rounds all the newest images had pretty good hands. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Schmeckinger@feddit.de 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) Which is incredibly favorable for the AI side. Like current countermeasures are either almost completely worthless, or degrade the quality of the protected medium so much that you wouldn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's going to be an AI vs AI all out, drag down, cage match. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Norgur@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Until the hype and thus the ridiculous worth estimations dry up and the AI companies suddenly can't just throw money at every problem anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago Open source AI has been keeping up pretty well of late. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago Most of the cool shit for AI these days is done by users, so at this point the companies aren't super important anymore. permalink fedilink source parent [–] munderzi@feddit.ch 2 points 2 years ago Up until then AWS and Azure party permalink fedilink source parent [–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The arms race will soon be AGI versus AGI and us humans will be on the sideline not even sure who is winning. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Do you think an authentic AGI would have ethical\moral boundaries completely divorced from what the original software programmed? In other words would it be able to make it's own decisions without interference? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I am certain it will happen. Perhaps not with all AGIs, but for sure some. That day is coming. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago I hope they will because I feel like if AGIs have ethical decision-making skills that Terminator-esque dystopian future becomes remote. If they never have that then we very well might be at the mercy of the world's largest conglomerations. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Asifall@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not really, if you read the paper what they’re doing is creating an image that looks like a dog, is labeled as a dog, but is very close to the model’s version of a cat in feature space. This means manual review of the training set won’t help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Asifall@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don’t think the idea is to protect specific images, it’s to create enough of these poisoned images that training your model on random free images you pull off the internet becomes risky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Which, honestly, should be criminal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Hmm, sounds more like they are adding structures to the images such that what is clearly a picture of a dog registers as a picture of a cat to an AI. I suppose this can be done by altering the pixels in a way invisible to humans, but visible to AI, adding a cat into the "ghost pixels". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mirodir@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I went and skimmed the paper because I was curious too. If my skimming is correct, what they do is similar to adversarial attacks on classifiers, where a second model learns to change as few pixels as possible to confuse a classifier into giving a wrong prediction. Looking at the examples of dogs and cats: They find pictures of dogs where by making only minimal changes, invisible to the naked eye, they can get the autoencoder to spit out (almost) the same latent representation as an image of a cat would have. Done to enough dog-images, this will then confuse the underlying diffusion model to produce latent representations of cat images when prompted to generate a dog. Edit for clarity: Those generated latent representations would then decode into cat images. If my thinking doesn't fail me, this attack could easily be thwarted by unfreezing the pretrained autoencoder. In the paper that introduced latent diffusion they write that such approaches already exist. If "Nightshade" takes off, I'm sure those approaches would be refined and used. Even just finetuning the autoencoder for a few epochs first should be enough to move the latent representations of the poisoned dog images and those of the cat images they're meant to resemble far enough apart to make the attack meaningless. Edit: I also wonder how robust this attack is against just adding an imperceptible amount of noise to the poisoned images. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I bet adding some blur might also defeat it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 36 points 2 years ago (3 children) It's going to be an arms race permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 58 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 23 points 2 years ago (2 children) The scary thing about this joke is that ai has been able to do hands for a relatively long time now. its going much faster then people are able to process. The thumbnail in this article is by Dalle-3 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Yeah, by the time the joke was really making the rounds all the newest images had pretty good hands. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Schmeckinger@feddit.de 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) Which is incredibly favorable for the AI side. Like current countermeasures are either almost completely worthless, or degrade the quality of the protected medium so much that you wouldn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's going to be an AI vs AI all out, drag down, cage match. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Norgur@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Until the hype and thus the ridiculous worth estimations dry up and the AI companies suddenly can't just throw money at every problem anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago Open source AI has been keeping up pretty well of late. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago Most of the cool shit for AI these days is done by users, so at this point the companies aren't super important anymore. permalink fedilink source parent [–] munderzi@feddit.ch 2 points 2 years ago Up until then AWS and Azure party permalink fedilink source parent [–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The arms race will soon be AGI versus AGI and us humans will be on the sideline not even sure who is winning. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Do you think an authentic AGI would have ethical\moral boundaries completely divorced from what the original software programmed? In other words would it be able to make it's own decisions without interference? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I am certain it will happen. Perhaps not with all AGIs, but for sure some. That day is coming. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago I hope they will because I feel like if AGIs have ethical decision-making skills that Terminator-esque dystopian future becomes remote. If they never have that then we very well might be at the mercy of the world's largest conglomerations. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 58 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 23 points 2 years ago (2 children) The scary thing about this joke is that ai has been able to do hands for a relatively long time now. its going much faster then people are able to process. The thumbnail in this article is by Dalle-3 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Yeah, by the time the joke was really making the rounds all the newest images had pretty good hands. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 23 points 2 years ago (2 children) The scary thing about this joke is that ai has been able to do hands for a relatively long time now. its going much faster then people are able to process. The thumbnail in this article is by Dalle-3 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] samus12345@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Yeah, by the time the joke was really making the rounds all the newest images had pretty good hands. permalink fedilink source parent [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago Yeah, by the time the joke was really making the rounds all the newest images had pretty good hands. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Schmeckinger@feddit.de 15 points 2 years ago (1 child) Which is incredibly favorable for the AI side. Like current countermeasures are either almost completely worthless, or degrade the quality of the protected medium so much that you wouldn't use it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's going to be an AI vs AI all out, drag down, cage match. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Norgur@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Until the hype and thus the ridiculous worth estimations dry up and the AI companies suddenly can't just throw money at every problem anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago Open source AI has been keeping up pretty well of late. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago Most of the cool shit for AI these days is done by users, so at this point the companies aren't super important anymore. permalink fedilink source parent [–] munderzi@feddit.ch 2 points 2 years ago Up until then AWS and Azure party permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's going to be an AI vs AI all out, drag down, cage match. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Norgur@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Until the hype and thus the ridiculous worth estimations dry up and the AI companies suddenly can't just throw money at every problem anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago Open source AI has been keeping up pretty well of late. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago Most of the cool shit for AI these days is done by users, so at this point the companies aren't super important anymore. permalink fedilink source parent [–] munderzi@feddit.ch 2 points 2 years ago Up until then AWS and Azure party permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Norgur@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Until the hype and thus the ridiculous worth estimations dry up and the AI companies suddenly can't just throw money at every problem anymore. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago Open source AI has been keeping up pretty well of late. permalink fedilink source parent [–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago Most of the cool shit for AI these days is done by users, so at this point the companies aren't super important anymore. permalink fedilink source parent [–] munderzi@feddit.ch 2 points 2 years ago Up until then AWS and Azure party permalink fedilink source parent
[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago Open source AI has been keeping up pretty well of late. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago Most of the cool shit for AI these days is done by users, so at this point the companies aren't super important anymore. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] munderzi@feddit.ch 2 points 2 years ago Up until then AWS and Azure party permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) The arms race will soon be AGI versus AGI and us humans will be on the sideline not even sure who is winning. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Do you think an authentic AGI would have ethical\moral boundaries completely divorced from what the original software programmed? In other words would it be able to make it's own decisions without interference? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I am certain it will happen. Perhaps not with all AGIs, but for sure some. That day is coming. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago I hope they will because I feel like if AGIs have ethical decision-making skills that Terminator-esque dystopian future becomes remote. If they never have that then we very well might be at the mercy of the world's largest conglomerations. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Do you think an authentic AGI would have ethical\moral boundaries completely divorced from what the original software programmed? In other words would it be able to make it's own decisions without interference? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I am certain it will happen. Perhaps not with all AGIs, but for sure some. That day is coming. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago I hope they will because I feel like if AGIs have ethical decision-making skills that Terminator-esque dystopian future becomes remote. If they never have that then we very well might be at the mercy of the world's largest conglomerations. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I am certain it will happen. Perhaps not with all AGIs, but for sure some. That day is coming. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago I hope they will because I feel like if AGIs have ethical decision-making skills that Terminator-esque dystopian future becomes remote. If they never have that then we very well might be at the mercy of the world's largest conglomerations. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Salamendacious@lemmy.world [S] 0 points 2 years ago I hope they will because I feel like if AGIs have ethical decision-making skills that Terminator-esque dystopian future becomes remote. If they never have that then we very well might be at the mercy of the world's largest conglomerations. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Asifall@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not really, if you read the paper what they’re doing is creating an image that looks like a dog, is labeled as a dog, but is very close to the model’s version of a cat in feature space. This means manual review of the training set won’t help. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Asifall@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don’t think the idea is to protect specific images, it’s to create enough of these poisoned images that training your model on random free images you pull off the internet becomes risky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Which, honestly, should be criminal. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] ubermeisters@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Asifall@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don’t think the idea is to protect specific images, it’s to create enough of these poisoned images that training your model on random free images you pull off the internet becomes risky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Which, honestly, should be criminal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Asifall@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don’t think the idea is to protect specific images, it’s to create enough of these poisoned images that training your model on random free images you pull off the internet becomes risky. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SCB@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Which, honestly, should be criminal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SCB@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago Which, honestly, should be criminal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago (1 child) Hmm, sounds more like they are adding structures to the images such that what is clearly a picture of a dog registers as a picture of a cat to an AI. I suppose this can be done by altering the pixels in a way invisible to humans, but visible to AI, adding a cat into the "ghost pixels". permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Mirodir@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I went and skimmed the paper because I was curious too. If my skimming is correct, what they do is similar to adversarial attacks on classifiers, where a second model learns to change as few pixels as possible to confuse a classifier into giving a wrong prediction. Looking at the examples of dogs and cats: They find pictures of dogs where by making only minimal changes, invisible to the naked eye, they can get the autoencoder to spit out (almost) the same latent representation as an image of a cat would have. Done to enough dog-images, this will then confuse the underlying diffusion model to produce latent representations of cat images when prompted to generate a dog. Edit for clarity: Those generated latent representations would then decode into cat images. If my thinking doesn't fail me, this attack could easily be thwarted by unfreezing the pretrained autoencoder. In the paper that introduced latent diffusion they write that such approaches already exist. If "Nightshade" takes off, I'm sure those approaches would be refined and used. Even just finetuning the autoencoder for a few epochs first should be enough to move the latent representations of the poisoned dog images and those of the cat images they're meant to resemble far enough apart to make the attack meaningless. Edit: I also wonder how robust this attack is against just adding an imperceptible amount of noise to the poisoned images. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I bet adding some blur might also defeat it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Mirodir@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 years ago* (1 child) I went and skimmed the paper because I was curious too. If my skimming is correct, what they do is similar to adversarial attacks on classifiers, where a second model learns to change as few pixels as possible to confuse a classifier into giving a wrong prediction. Looking at the examples of dogs and cats: They find pictures of dogs where by making only minimal changes, invisible to the naked eye, they can get the autoencoder to spit out (almost) the same latent representation as an image of a cat would have. Done to enough dog-images, this will then confuse the underlying diffusion model to produce latent representations of cat images when prompted to generate a dog. Edit for clarity: Those generated latent representations would then decode into cat images. If my thinking doesn't fail me, this attack could easily be thwarted by unfreezing the pretrained autoencoder. In the paper that introduced latent diffusion they write that such approaches already exist. If "Nightshade" takes off, I'm sure those approaches would be refined and used. Even just finetuning the autoencoder for a few epochs first should be enough to move the latent representations of the poisoned dog images and those of the cat images they're meant to resemble far enough apart to make the attack meaningless. Edit: I also wonder how robust this attack is against just adding an imperceptible amount of noise to the poisoned images. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I bet adding some blur might also defeat it. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago I bet adding some blur might also defeat it. permalink fedilink source parent