1591
Kick tankies out of 196 (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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Remember kids, Tankies wants to undermine democracy - same as facists.

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[+] 68 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)
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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I've met tankies irl. They just keep their mouths shut offline.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    pro-Israeli pagan plural trans anarchist

    I was going to say that this sounds made up cause I never once saw one, much less in Lemmy, and point out the big contradiction . Then I noticed I haven't met any actual tankies in both here and IRL either so point taken.

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  • [+] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm from Germany too and that is news to me. Maybe region dependant? I live in Bremen.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    I mean, I tend to interpret 'tankie' to be people who support Lenin's dictatorship of the proletariat or similar ideas. Basically, the idea that in order to institute communism you should aim to take power and force everyone to comply with your new state through violence against dissenting parts of the populace.

    Personally, my reading of Marx and Engels is a descriptive one rather than a proscriptive one. If the forces of workers haven't spontaneously risen to throw off their chains and seize the means of production, I don't think you can force it. The victory of communism is one of human autonomy that comes as a natural result of capitalism's unsustainability. That's not the same thing as systematic reform, but it's not the same thing as attempting to impose the change on the populace either.

    I don't think it can happen until the workers are sufficiently pushed into a corner and decide to do it themselves.

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  • [+] 5 points 2 years ago* (1 child)
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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I've read the State and Revolution, I'm well aware of what the dictatorship of the proletariat is. Lenin endorses the use of state violence to coerce members of the proletariat who don't support his cause. I guess i can go dig out my copy and find a supporting quote or two if you really need it. I had a couple of Marxist professors who made sure we covered that and Das Kapital pretty extensively. It's been a minute, but I remember it standing out because of the sheer contrast between Lenin's perspective and Engels'.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I tend to interpret ‘tankie’ to be people who support Lenin’s dictatorship of the proletariat or similar ideas

    That's just Marxism. That idea started with Marx, not Lenin. He even talks about it in the Communist Manifesto, saying:

    We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy. The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

    Not even mentioning his Critique of the Gotha Programme where he talks about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the transition from capitalism to communism extensively. It's okay to not be a Marxist, but it's just factually incorrect to claim that the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't integral to Marx's understanding of the transition to communism.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    Marx and Engels made the fundamental mistake of conflating violence with authority. They were correct to say that revolution must be violent, and from their mistake assumed it must also establish authority. In the last 150 years, we have seen many examples of anarchic violence across the world. Marx's assumption is no longer relevant except as an item of historical interest. It is not core to those parts of Marxian theory which are worth bringing into the analyses of the 21st century.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Word comes from 80s Britain as far as I'm aware.

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  • [+] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    @LtLiana No I think it was coined to describe communists in the west who were down with the Stalinist government led by Rákosi [edit, whoever the old hardliners were in Hungary and whoever it was in the USSR under Kruschev] sending tanks to subdue Hungary. Wikipedia on Hungarian uprising for those who want to know more.

    Tankies generally are still Stalinism apologists, among other things. I don't think it has changed that much.

    These days they just have a whole lot more egregious totalitarianism to be apologists for.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    When did stalin die and when did the hungarian revolt happen?

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  • [+] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)
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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Are you calling krushchev a stalinist? They guy who led destalinization?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    @OurToothbrush oops deleted wrong comment. You and are having this exact exchange in 2 places and I only want to have it in one.

    I'm trying to call Rákosi a Stalinist. He led the Stalinist govt in Hungary at that time I thought and I'm pretty sure he asked Kruschev to send in the tanks. The "Destalinization" leader got deposed by him.

    My history on all this is rusty as hell though.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes, and both because I dont believe you and as an exercise in learning what actually happened, could you please cite your claims? Because that does not line up with what I know to be the sequence of events.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    @OurToothbrush interesting idea but no, to be candid, I've reached the limit point of my interest in these details. I only learned about it as a byproduct of spending time in Hungary, and that was over a decade ago.

    I've edited my comments and crossed out my errors so they don't mislead anybody.

    I would suggest if you do want to actually educate people, it might be more effective if you post what you know to be the sequence of events, and some suggestions for further reading.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I would suggest if you do want to actually educate people, it might be more effective if you post what you know to be the sequence of events, and some suggestions for further reading.

    I try to when I have the energy. Thank you for editing your post to better reflect what knowledge you have on the subject.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    At yes the glorious centrist arrived /halfjoking

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Also note how similar to a Nazi they sound (mind you i am not calling this person one). Nazis always argue we should debate their ideas but we know that shit doesn't work and is a way to legitimize their genocidal rhetoric.

    Then there's the whataboutism and concern trolling. We should think about UnItY when tankies have the fascistic ideals and cause this divisiveness. This hit all and people got pissed.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    Honestly you're right. I mostly noticed how they reminded me of liberal centrists but decided to have it be a passing joke instead because I didn't feel like picking an argument today.

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