Robaque comments on Kick tankies out of 196

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[+] Mchugho@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

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[–] Robaque@feddit.it 8 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

The state is needed to enforce private property, not the lack of it.

Critically, you assume that authority is required for order, so obviously you're unable to envision whatever it might be that anarchists are getting at.

Sure, communism is an ideal that does not exist in practice currently, but the point of an ideal is to work towards it. The "anarcho" part specifies complete opposition to authority in praxis as well. Strategies could include unionising, community building, mutual aid, permablitzing, FOSS, copyleft, and whatever else can undermine the current power structures while maintaining anarchist principles. Which explicitly excludes Marxist-Leninist strategies of coopting the state, or forming any other kind of heirarchy.

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[+] Mchugho@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

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[–] Robaque@feddit.it 4 points 2 years ago

Using the state to make private property "illegal" might be a possible strategy, but it certainly isn't an anarchist one.

Hypothetically, the moment that the state doesn't exist, private property would be unenforceable/meaningless. How the state might be abolished is another question. While marxist-leninists might opt for a "trust me bro the state will dissolve once we reach true communism" strategy, anarchists again would not. Obviously it's a tough question and an even tougher endeavour but it's not something anarchists don't have answers for.

Anarchist praxis is more grassroots focused, because obviously anarchy/anarcho-communism can't happen overnight, and requires a profound change in social values. If you choose to believe that it's impossible, I can't blame you, but I would like to ask why.

Also you use private property and "property" interchangeably, but there's a difference between personal property and private property. Abolishing private property isn't about taking away your personal house and toothbrush, it's about abolishing landlords, factory owners, and other "private" ownership of public/communal spaces.

Regarding unions, it depends whether or not they've been structured specifically without hierarchy in mind. In any case the point is that anarchist praxis is diverse and decentralised.

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[–] Val@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Actually an entire state made out of democratic worker unions sounds pretty good. Although I personally would prefer no state.

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[+] Mchugho@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

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[–] Val@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago

That is why for any such society to exist there must be a widespread cultural belief in opposing authority. All of the members of society need to call out those who try to consolidate power. The entire community must be opposed to any individual power grab. They must not be given the opportunity. That is the only way to sustain the system.

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[–] Robaque@feddit.it 1 point 2 years ago

Sounds like council communism I think?

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[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

Communism is as much of a fairy tale as the Free Market.

For exactly the same reasons: humans are greedy and selfish.

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[–] Robaque@feddit.it 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

humans are greedy and selfish

That's just what you choose to believe. These's no scientific proof that they make up some kind of transcendent truth about the human condition.

It's entirely possible that the humans traits of greed and selfishness tend to become much more pronounced when humans are subjected to systems that reward those qualities.

Also, greed and selfishness are distinct from self-interest. And besides, self-interest doesn't explain the entirety of human behaviour either.

Perhaps other systems that reward collaboration and egalitarianism and autonomy are not only possible, but also more sustainable that the shitshow we've got now, and all we need is for enough people to get out of the mental rut of believing capitalist bullshit about "humanity" and "life" just because it's the status quo.