▲ 653 ▼ About 100,000 turn out in London for pro-Palestine rally (www.theguardian.com) submitted 2 years ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/world@lemmy.world 262 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] dzire187@feddit.de -74 points 2 years ago (7 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments replies: [–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 65 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don't think any right-thinking person has any sympathy for Hamas, and rightly so. However, Palestinians are not automatically members of Hamas. This would be like saying you're "done with" Americans and we should bomb every major American city because of the actions of the Proud Boys and other right-wing militias. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children) The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. A more reasonable comparison would be to feel completely done with USA because of the republicans or democrats, but not even that compares since the support of both parties actually are lower than that of Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Palestine Just a few things thats come up in Sweden in "support of palestine" after the 7th october attack. Hizb Ut-Tahrir flags, terrorists that are radical islamists, banned in 6 + almost all Arab countries. Their goal is to create a Muslim caliphate by fights against their idea of non-muslim regimes. They recognize no other religion, is heavily anti-semitic, and is founded in Jerusalem The biggest arabic newspaper in Sweden had 2 editors show open support for Hamas- quote: "may god assist them and give them victory" and "our guys are good" just hours after the attack. Big number of cars driving up and down the streets honking and waving flags hours after the terrorist attack. In the comments people are discussing how big this demonstration was, and how several streets were completely shut off, aswell as some Danish commenters explaining how it was the same in Copenhagen. Article about the demonstrations aswell as the support shown online to these terrorist attacks. This one isn't as credible as the rest since it's a very right-wing website, but the demonstrations are true and the comments they mention were on full display in support of Hamas murdering jews. Here's our government discussing entirely stopping all financial and humanitarian aid to Palestine because of the huge support shown for the murders, kidnappings, and tortures that were committed the 7th. Quote: "We cannot provide support for a government that celebrates and shows support for actions like these" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago (3 children) The most important part of this is the support level. I have 2 points about this. First is that 43% of Palestinians in Gaza that don't support Hamas are entitled to not be blown up or displaced, the second is that out of those 57% there's a big difference between material support and just ticking a box in a poll. Does someone who says "Hitler did nothing wrong" deserve execution? I would argue they should be deplatformed, but not starved, tortured, shot and/or bombed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tony@lemmy.stad.social 6 points 2 years ago And to add to that, these people did not say "Hamas did nothing wrong". 58% said they saw Hamas as very or "somewhat" positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying "somewhat positive" (38%, vs 20% "very positive") for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with. Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how "somewhat positive" does not mean "agree with brutal terrorism against civilians" given that it in fact doesn't even mean "thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units". This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Of course nobody ever deserves to get bombed, just the same as how nobody deserves what Hamas did to the Israelian civilians. My point is to address how disgusting and despicable the behavior of Palestinians are regarding the actions of Hamas, and how ridiculous it is that these behaviors aren't getting called out. Instead of worldwide demonstrations against israel and celebrations of what those poor civilians had to endure, perhaps it's time for them to start demonstrating against Hamas. It's really hard to feel any major sympathy when they show absolutely none towards the victims of the terrorist attack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I wonder how many say they support Hamas out if fear of retaliation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why anyone is taking sides in this is just beyond me. They're all literally terrible, both Hamas and the Israeli government. It's just Iraq all over again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that's just not how it is. Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying. Frankly it's bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don't think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago A radical idea: if "defending yourself" requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to "defend yourself". permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh definitely, agreed. I'm not siding with israel at all, I'm calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Smk@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago That's my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) People will support anyone who fights their oppressors, whether the means used are moral or not. Since oppression and killing are immoral as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rdri@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago "We will fight with our oppressor using terrorism, which will guarantee us all further suffering and isolation. We will also fire unreliable missiles that sometimes kill our citizens. Support us!" Yeah, I don't think it's okay to expect any sane person to support these guys. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago What I do not understand is why the same doesn't count for Israel? It's founded by and for people who were oppressed and killed for much longer than Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 2 years ago The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. Holy shit, way to misrepresent an article. I urge anyone who thinks the above commenter had a good point to click through and at least read the headline of the article. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh no, it's the consequences of my own actions again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] fritz@feddit.de 37 points 2 years ago Ah yes let’s „be done“ with a whole group of people, that’s normal rhetoric 👍 permalink fedilink source parent [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) Lost any sympathy with Palestinians In other words... your sympathies always lay with the white supremacist settler-colonialist project and not their victims. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How is Israel a white supremacist settler-colonist? Do you know anything about Israel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel's traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right? Israel has never been anything else. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PM_ME_FEET_PICS@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago Hamas isn't Palestine. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Wakmrow@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago No permalink fedilink source parent [–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago Did you start hating all Germans once Hitler got into power? If you didn't, that's mighty hypocritical of you. If you did, that's misguidedly racist as well. permalink fedilink source parent [+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -20 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Last drop in the bucket was how they dug up the water pipes that europe paid for, to make rockets out of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You sound so utterly clueless about the whole thing. And stupid to boot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Ah yes, silly of me to be against humanitarian aid to be dug up and used as weapons by a terrorist group, extra silly since that terrorist group and their actions have a majority supported by their population. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) What's silly is that you lot consistently see the situation on its head. Either you don't get what is going on, or you don't want to tell the truth. Hamas is what happens when you do to people what Israel does. It's that simple. You cannot deprive an entire people of their dignity and commit atrocities for half a century and then complain when a section of them turns to violence. Anyone who suggests that is an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can say the same about Israel. Israel is what happens when you commit atrocities against a people since about 586 BC. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 65 points 2 years ago (1 child) I don't think any right-thinking person has any sympathy for Hamas, and rightly so. However, Palestinians are not automatically members of Hamas. This would be like saying you're "done with" Americans and we should bomb every major American city because of the actions of the Proud Boys and other right-wing militias. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children) The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. A more reasonable comparison would be to feel completely done with USA because of the republicans or democrats, but not even that compares since the support of both parties actually are lower than that of Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Palestine Just a few things thats come up in Sweden in "support of palestine" after the 7th october attack. Hizb Ut-Tahrir flags, terrorists that are radical islamists, banned in 6 + almost all Arab countries. Their goal is to create a Muslim caliphate by fights against their idea of non-muslim regimes. They recognize no other religion, is heavily anti-semitic, and is founded in Jerusalem The biggest arabic newspaper in Sweden had 2 editors show open support for Hamas- quote: "may god assist them and give them victory" and "our guys are good" just hours after the attack. Big number of cars driving up and down the streets honking and waving flags hours after the terrorist attack. In the comments people are discussing how big this demonstration was, and how several streets were completely shut off, aswell as some Danish commenters explaining how it was the same in Copenhagen. Article about the demonstrations aswell as the support shown online to these terrorist attacks. This one isn't as credible as the rest since it's a very right-wing website, but the demonstrations are true and the comments they mention were on full display in support of Hamas murdering jews. Here's our government discussing entirely stopping all financial and humanitarian aid to Palestine because of the huge support shown for the murders, kidnappings, and tortures that were committed the 7th. Quote: "We cannot provide support for a government that celebrates and shows support for actions like these" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago (3 children) The most important part of this is the support level. I have 2 points about this. First is that 43% of Palestinians in Gaza that don't support Hamas are entitled to not be blown up or displaced, the second is that out of those 57% there's a big difference between material support and just ticking a box in a poll. Does someone who says "Hitler did nothing wrong" deserve execution? I would argue they should be deplatformed, but not starved, tortured, shot and/or bombed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tony@lemmy.stad.social 6 points 2 years ago And to add to that, these people did not say "Hamas did nothing wrong". 58% said they saw Hamas as very or "somewhat" positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying "somewhat positive" (38%, vs 20% "very positive") for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with. Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how "somewhat positive" does not mean "agree with brutal terrorism against civilians" given that it in fact doesn't even mean "thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units". This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Of course nobody ever deserves to get bombed, just the same as how nobody deserves what Hamas did to the Israelian civilians. My point is to address how disgusting and despicable the behavior of Palestinians are regarding the actions of Hamas, and how ridiculous it is that these behaviors aren't getting called out. Instead of worldwide demonstrations against israel and celebrations of what those poor civilians had to endure, perhaps it's time for them to start demonstrating against Hamas. It's really hard to feel any major sympathy when they show absolutely none towards the victims of the terrorist attack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I wonder how many say they support Hamas out if fear of retaliation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why anyone is taking sides in this is just beyond me. They're all literally terrible, both Hamas and the Israeli government. It's just Iraq all over again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that's just not how it is. Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying. Frankly it's bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don't think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago A radical idea: if "defending yourself" requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to "defend yourself". permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh definitely, agreed. I'm not siding with israel at all, I'm calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Smk@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago That's my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) People will support anyone who fights their oppressors, whether the means used are moral or not. Since oppression and killing are immoral as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rdri@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago "We will fight with our oppressor using terrorism, which will guarantee us all further suffering and isolation. We will also fire unreliable missiles that sometimes kill our citizens. Support us!" Yeah, I don't think it's okay to expect any sane person to support these guys. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago What I do not understand is why the same doesn't count for Israel? It's founded by and for people who were oppressed and killed for much longer than Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 2 years ago The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. Holy shit, way to misrepresent an article. I urge anyone who thinks the above commenter had a good point to click through and at least read the headline of the article. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh no, it's the consequences of my own actions again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children) The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. A more reasonable comparison would be to feel completely done with USA because of the republicans or democrats, but not even that compares since the support of both parties actually are lower than that of Hamas or Islamic Jihad in Palestine Just a few things thats come up in Sweden in "support of palestine" after the 7th october attack. Hizb Ut-Tahrir flags, terrorists that are radical islamists, banned in 6 + almost all Arab countries. Their goal is to create a Muslim caliphate by fights against their idea of non-muslim regimes. They recognize no other religion, is heavily anti-semitic, and is founded in Jerusalem The biggest arabic newspaper in Sweden had 2 editors show open support for Hamas- quote: "may god assist them and give them victory" and "our guys are good" just hours after the attack. Big number of cars driving up and down the streets honking and waving flags hours after the terrorist attack. In the comments people are discussing how big this demonstration was, and how several streets were completely shut off, aswell as some Danish commenters explaining how it was the same in Copenhagen. Article about the demonstrations aswell as the support shown online to these terrorist attacks. This one isn't as credible as the rest since it's a very right-wing website, but the demonstrations are true and the comments they mention were on full display in support of Hamas murdering jews. Here's our government discussing entirely stopping all financial and humanitarian aid to Palestine because of the huge support shown for the murders, kidnappings, and tortures that were committed the 7th. Quote: "We cannot provide support for a government that celebrates and shows support for actions like these" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago (3 children) The most important part of this is the support level. I have 2 points about this. First is that 43% of Palestinians in Gaza that don't support Hamas are entitled to not be blown up or displaced, the second is that out of those 57% there's a big difference between material support and just ticking a box in a poll. Does someone who says "Hitler did nothing wrong" deserve execution? I would argue they should be deplatformed, but not starved, tortured, shot and/or bombed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tony@lemmy.stad.social 6 points 2 years ago And to add to that, these people did not say "Hamas did nothing wrong". 58% said they saw Hamas as very or "somewhat" positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying "somewhat positive" (38%, vs 20% "very positive") for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with. Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how "somewhat positive" does not mean "agree with brutal terrorism against civilians" given that it in fact doesn't even mean "thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units". This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Of course nobody ever deserves to get bombed, just the same as how nobody deserves what Hamas did to the Israelian civilians. My point is to address how disgusting and despicable the behavior of Palestinians are regarding the actions of Hamas, and how ridiculous it is that these behaviors aren't getting called out. Instead of worldwide demonstrations against israel and celebrations of what those poor civilians had to endure, perhaps it's time for them to start demonstrating against Hamas. It's really hard to feel any major sympathy when they show absolutely none towards the victims of the terrorist attack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I wonder how many say they support Hamas out if fear of retaliation. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why anyone is taking sides in this is just beyond me. They're all literally terrible, both Hamas and the Israeli government. It's just Iraq all over again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that's just not how it is. Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying. Frankly it's bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don't think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago A radical idea: if "defending yourself" requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to "defend yourself". permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh definitely, agreed. I'm not siding with israel at all, I'm calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Smk@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago That's my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ? permalink fedilink source parent [–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) People will support anyone who fights their oppressors, whether the means used are moral or not. Since oppression and killing are immoral as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rdri@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago "We will fight with our oppressor using terrorism, which will guarantee us all further suffering and isolation. We will also fire unreliable missiles that sometimes kill our citizens. Support us!" Yeah, I don't think it's okay to expect any sane person to support these guys. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago What I do not understand is why the same doesn't count for Israel? It's founded by and for people who were oppressed and killed for much longer than Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 2 years ago The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. Holy shit, way to misrepresent an article. I urge anyone who thinks the above commenter had a good point to click through and at least read the headline of the article. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh no, it's the consequences of my own actions again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 years ago (3 children) The most important part of this is the support level. I have 2 points about this. First is that 43% of Palestinians in Gaza that don't support Hamas are entitled to not be blown up or displaced, the second is that out of those 57% there's a big difference between material support and just ticking a box in a poll. Does someone who says "Hitler did nothing wrong" deserve execution? I would argue they should be deplatformed, but not starved, tortured, shot and/or bombed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] tony@lemmy.stad.social 6 points 2 years ago And to add to that, these people did not say "Hamas did nothing wrong". 58% said they saw Hamas as very or "somewhat" positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying "somewhat positive" (38%, vs 20% "very positive") for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with. Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how "somewhat positive" does not mean "agree with brutal terrorism against civilians" given that it in fact doesn't even mean "thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units". This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 point 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Of course nobody ever deserves to get bombed, just the same as how nobody deserves what Hamas did to the Israelian civilians. My point is to address how disgusting and despicable the behavior of Palestinians are regarding the actions of Hamas, and how ridiculous it is that these behaviors aren't getting called out. Instead of worldwide demonstrations against israel and celebrations of what those poor civilians had to endure, perhaps it's time for them to start demonstrating against Hamas. It's really hard to feel any major sympathy when they show absolutely none towards the victims of the terrorist attack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I wonder how many say they support Hamas out if fear of retaliation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] tony@lemmy.stad.social 6 points 2 years ago And to add to that, these people did not say "Hamas did nothing wrong". 58% said they saw Hamas as very or "somewhat" positive. This is an organisation who on one hand is a terrorist organisation, but who on the other hand operates social services. People living in deep poverty who are exposed to the social services aspect will naturally to some extent be willing to tick a box saying "somewhat positive" (38%, vs 20% "very positive") for an organization who they personally have first-hand positive interactions with. Despite that, and at the same time, the same survey also points out that 70% of the population in Gaza wants Hamas to give up separate armed units and hand power over the the Palestinian Authority, which should give some insight into how "somewhat positive" does not mean "agree with brutal terrorism against civilians" given that it in fact doesn't even mean "thinks Hamas should stay in charge or have control of armed units". This person keeps grossly misrepresenting the level of support actually expressed. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Of course nobody ever deserves to get bombed, just the same as how nobody deserves what Hamas did to the Israelian civilians. My point is to address how disgusting and despicable the behavior of Palestinians are regarding the actions of Hamas, and how ridiculous it is that these behaviors aren't getting called out. Instead of worldwide demonstrations against israel and celebrations of what those poor civilians had to endure, perhaps it's time for them to start demonstrating against Hamas. It's really hard to feel any major sympathy when they show absolutely none towards the victims of the terrorist attack. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I wonder how many say they support Hamas out if fear of retaliation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago I wonder how many say they support Hamas out if fear of retaliation. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 20 points 2 years ago (2 children) Why anyone is taking sides in this is just beyond me. They're all literally terrible, both Hamas and the Israeli government. It's just Iraq all over again permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that's just not how it is. Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying. Frankly it's bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don't think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago A radical idea: if "defending yourself" requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to "defend yourself". permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent [–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh definitely, agreed. I'm not siding with israel at all, I'm calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Smk@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago That's my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) I completely agree. Everyone wants a nice simple goodie vs baddie dynamic but that's just not how it is. Innocent people are being killed. I am pro-non-combatants-not-dying. Frankly it's bizarre that western countries are so supportive of Israel. Yes Israel needs to defend itself but I don't think that requires the deaths of 5,000 mostly innocent Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago A radical idea: if "defending yourself" requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to "defend yourself". permalink fedilink source parent [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago A radical idea: if "defending yourself" requires killing thousands of Innocent people, you do not, in fact, have a right to "defend yourself". permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) I'm greatly worried the whole debacle is taking away much-needed attention from Ukraine. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) Maybe. It seems like the same parties pulling the strings in the Ukraine / Russia Conflict are the parties pulling the strings in the Israel / Gaza conflict. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pinkdrunkenelephants@lemmy.cafe 0 points 2 years ago Remember how in the book 1984, it explains how the three major factions of that world were fighting proxy wars in the small equatorial region they had yet to conquer, and they were doing it on purpose to burn resources to maintain their brutally authoritarian societies? I feel like these wars are doing just that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -5 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh definitely, agreed. I'm not siding with israel at all, I'm calling out how absolutely disgusting it is that people are coming to defense of these actions, and defending the worldspread celebrations of these deeds by the people who emigrated away from there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Smk@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago That's my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Smk@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 years ago That's my position too. How can you celebrate in the street after a terrorist attacks like this ? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) People will support anyone who fights their oppressors, whether the means used are moral or not. Since oppression and killing are immoral as well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] rdri@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago "We will fight with our oppressor using terrorism, which will guarantee us all further suffering and isolation. We will also fire unreliable missiles that sometimes kill our citizens. Support us!" Yeah, I don't think it's okay to expect any sane person to support these guys. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago What I do not understand is why the same doesn't count for Israel? It's founded by and for people who were oppressed and killed for much longer than Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rdri@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago "We will fight with our oppressor using terrorism, which will guarantee us all further suffering and isolation. We will also fire unreliable missiles that sometimes kill our citizens. Support us!" Yeah, I don't think it's okay to expect any sane person to support these guys. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago What I do not understand is why the same doesn't count for Israel? It's founded by and for people who were oppressed and killed for much longer than Palestinians. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 2 years ago The support for hamas is 57% in palestine, Islamic Jihad has 71% support, people with Palestinian background are celebrating the executions, the rapes, and the murder of children on the streets in the western world even. Holy shit, way to misrepresent an article. I urge anyone who thinks the above commenter had a good point to click through and at least read the headline of the article. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Oh no, it's the consequences of my own actions again. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SCB@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (1 child) [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fritz@feddit.de 37 points 2 years ago Ah yes let’s „be done“ with a whole group of people, that’s normal rhetoric 👍 permalink fedilink source parent
[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago (1 child) Lost any sympathy with Palestinians In other words... your sympathies always lay with the white supremacist settler-colonialist project and not their victims. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How is Israel a white supremacist settler-colonist? Do you know anything about Israel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel's traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right? Israel has never been anything else. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) How is Israel a white supremacist settler-colonist? Do you know anything about Israel? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel's traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right? Israel has never been anything else. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago I guess you thought it a complete coincidence that all of Israel's traditional supporters were countries that all had deep histories of white supremacism, antisemitism and colonialism, eh? France, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Apartheid-era South Africa and, of course, the US - just a complete coincidence, right? Israel has never been anything else. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PM_ME_FEET_PICS@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 years ago Hamas isn't Palestine. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 1 point 2 years ago Did you start hating all Germans once Hitler got into power? If you didn't, that's mighty hypocritical of you. If you did, that's misguidedly racist as well. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -20 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Last drop in the bucket was how they dug up the water pipes that europe paid for, to make rockets out of them. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You sound so utterly clueless about the whole thing. And stupid to boot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Ah yes, silly of me to be against humanitarian aid to be dug up and used as weapons by a terrorist group, extra silly since that terrorist group and their actions have a majority supported by their population. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) What's silly is that you lot consistently see the situation on its head. Either you don't get what is going on, or you don't want to tell the truth. Hamas is what happens when you do to people what Israel does. It's that simple. You cannot deprive an entire people of their dignity and commit atrocities for half a century and then complain when a section of them turns to violence. Anyone who suggests that is an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can say the same about Israel. Israel is what happens when you commit atrocities against a people since about 586 BC. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) You sound so utterly clueless about the whole thing. And stupid to boot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Ah yes, silly of me to be against humanitarian aid to be dug up and used as weapons by a terrorist group, extra silly since that terrorist group and their actions have a majority supported by their population. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) What's silly is that you lot consistently see the situation on its head. Either you don't get what is going on, or you don't want to tell the truth. Hamas is what happens when you do to people what Israel does. It's that simple. You cannot deprive an entire people of their dignity and commit atrocities for half a century and then complain when a section of them turns to violence. Anyone who suggests that is an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can say the same about Israel. Israel is what happens when you commit atrocities against a people since about 586 BC. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] SwedishFool@lemmy.world -7 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Ah yes, silly of me to be against humanitarian aid to be dug up and used as weapons by a terrorist group, extra silly since that terrorist group and their actions have a majority supported by their population. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) What's silly is that you lot consistently see the situation on its head. Either you don't get what is going on, or you don't want to tell the truth. Hamas is what happens when you do to people what Israel does. It's that simple. You cannot deprive an entire people of their dignity and commit atrocities for half a century and then complain when a section of them turns to violence. Anyone who suggests that is an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can say the same about Israel. Israel is what happens when you commit atrocities against a people since about 586 BC. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] smooth_tea@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child) What's silly is that you lot consistently see the situation on its head. Either you don't get what is going on, or you don't want to tell the truth. Hamas is what happens when you do to people what Israel does. It's that simple. You cannot deprive an entire people of their dignity and commit atrocities for half a century and then complain when a section of them turns to violence. Anyone who suggests that is an idiot. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can say the same about Israel. Israel is what happens when you commit atrocities against a people since about 586 BC. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Can say the same about Israel. Israel is what happens when you commit atrocities against a people since about 586 BC. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com -1 points 2 years ago Are we blaming Palestinians for everything that has happened to Jews over the last two and a half millennia? permalink fedilink source parent