▲ 118 ▼ British man with dementia told to leave Sweden after losing migration case (www.theguardian.com) submitted 3 days ago by RubberDuck@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world 39 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Waterpumpee@lemmus.org 18 points 3 days ago (1 child) Borders contain a social system. Like one country decides to fund healthcare (more) and the other doesn't. Would be unfair and unsustainable if people who fall sick are now suddendly migrating to a healthcare system they didnt fund. That's why EU open borders require future member states to implement the similar ruleset first. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 3 days ago (2 children) It’s not complicated. It's not complicated; it's just ghoulish and inhumane. Why should the British voting public's opinions affect the life of this person who hasn't lived in Britain for decades? This isn't even that novel of an idea; clearly essentially all EU countries other than Sweden understand this, hence Sweden being the only EU country with a two-digit percentage Brexit deportation rate. I mean hell, if Bulgaria can only deport 5 people out of 16 thousand then it's clearly not "not complicated." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) So keeping him in Sweden requires an individual exception. I won't address the value problem of "then why not give that exception." Instead I'll say: No it doesn't; the Brexit withdrawal agreement has provisions specifically for British people living in the EU at the time of implementation. This is factually wrong, as seen by the behavior of literally every other EU member state. There’s no reason to grant someone who in 20 years never applied for Swedish citizenship an exception. Setting aside the value problem of "the right to live in one's home isn't something to be granted," see above. Again this isn't an exception; it's the rule as set in the withdrawal agreement. Also this is your third time moving the goalposts and I'd really rather you commit to one line of argument or admit that you're defending the indefensible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) First you're talking about rules and exceptions, now you're arguing the Swedish government can do whatever it wants and rules don't matter. I hope you can see the contraction here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) First, that has nothing to do with anything I said. Second, I somehow doubt applying for citizenship would've gone better than applying for residency. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) I see you moving the goalposts there, but fine. In that case: Sweden's "right" to autonomy (countries don't have rights; people do, in this case the right to self-determination) doesn't override the rights of people living in Sweden. Your argument can be used to justify literally anything any government does, but I rather doubt you'd justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine via Russia's "right" (see above) to autonomy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Waterpumpee@lemmus.org 18 points 3 days ago (1 child) Borders contain a social system. Like one country decides to fund healthcare (more) and the other doesn't. Would be unfair and unsustainable if people who fall sick are now suddendly migrating to a healthcare system they didnt fund. That's why EU open borders require future member states to implement the similar ruleset first. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 7 points 3 days ago (2 children) It’s not complicated. It's not complicated; it's just ghoulish and inhumane. Why should the British voting public's opinions affect the life of this person who hasn't lived in Britain for decades? This isn't even that novel of an idea; clearly essentially all EU countries other than Sweden understand this, hence Sweden being the only EU country with a two-digit percentage Brexit deportation rate. I mean hell, if Bulgaria can only deport 5 people out of 16 thousand then it's clearly not "not complicated." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) So keeping him in Sweden requires an individual exception. I won't address the value problem of "then why not give that exception." Instead I'll say: No it doesn't; the Brexit withdrawal agreement has provisions specifically for British people living in the EU at the time of implementation. This is factually wrong, as seen by the behavior of literally every other EU member state. There’s no reason to grant someone who in 20 years never applied for Swedish citizenship an exception. Setting aside the value problem of "the right to live in one's home isn't something to be granted," see above. Again this isn't an exception; it's the rule as set in the withdrawal agreement. Also this is your third time moving the goalposts and I'd really rather you commit to one line of argument or admit that you're defending the indefensible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) First you're talking about rules and exceptions, now you're arguing the Swedish government can do whatever it wants and rules don't matter. I hope you can see the contraction here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) First, that has nothing to do with anything I said. Second, I somehow doubt applying for citizenship would've gone better than applying for residency. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) I see you moving the goalposts there, but fine. In that case: Sweden's "right" to autonomy (countries don't have rights; people do, in this case the right to self-determination) doesn't override the rights of people living in Sweden. Your argument can be used to justify literally anything any government does, but I rather doubt you'd justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine via Russia's "right" (see above) to autonomy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) So keeping him in Sweden requires an individual exception. I won't address the value problem of "then why not give that exception." Instead I'll say: No it doesn't; the Brexit withdrawal agreement has provisions specifically for British people living in the EU at the time of implementation. This is factually wrong, as seen by the behavior of literally every other EU member state. There’s no reason to grant someone who in 20 years never applied for Swedish citizenship an exception. Setting aside the value problem of "the right to live in one's home isn't something to be granted," see above. Again this isn't an exception; it's the rule as set in the withdrawal agreement. Also this is your third time moving the goalposts and I'd really rather you commit to one line of argument or admit that you're defending the indefensible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) First you're talking about rules and exceptions, now you're arguing the Swedish government can do whatever it wants and rules don't matter. I hope you can see the contraction here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) So keeping him in Sweden requires an individual exception. I won't address the value problem of "then why not give that exception." Instead I'll say: No it doesn't; the Brexit withdrawal agreement has provisions specifically for British people living in the EU at the time of implementation. This is factually wrong, as seen by the behavior of literally every other EU member state. There’s no reason to grant someone who in 20 years never applied for Swedish citizenship an exception. Setting aside the value problem of "the right to live in one's home isn't something to be granted," see above. Again this isn't an exception; it's the rule as set in the withdrawal agreement. Also this is your third time moving the goalposts and I'd really rather you commit to one line of argument or admit that you're defending the indefensible. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) First you're talking about rules and exceptions, now you're arguing the Swedish government can do whatever it wants and rules don't matter. I hope you can see the contraction here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) First you're talking about rules and exceptions, now you're arguing the Swedish government can do whatever it wants and rules don't matter. I hope you can see the contraction here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 point 3 days ago (1 child) First you're talking about rules and exceptions, now you're arguing the Swedish government can do whatever it wants and rules don't matter. I hope you can see the contraction here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) First, that has nothing to do with anything I said. Second, I somehow doubt applying for citizenship would've gone better than applying for residency. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) I see you moving the goalposts there, but fine. In that case: Sweden's "right" to autonomy (countries don't have rights; people do, in this case the right to self-determination) doesn't override the rights of people living in Sweden. Your argument can be used to justify literally anything any government does, but I rather doubt you'd justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine via Russia's "right" (see above) to autonomy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) First, that has nothing to do with anything I said. Second, I somehow doubt applying for citizenship would've gone better than applying for residency. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) I see you moving the goalposts there, but fine. In that case: Sweden's "right" to autonomy (countries don't have rights; people do, in this case the right to self-determination) doesn't override the rights of people living in Sweden. Your argument can be used to justify literally anything any government does, but I rather doubt you'd justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine via Russia's "right" (see above) to autonomy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) I see you moving the goalposts there, but fine. In that case: Sweden's "right" to autonomy (countries don't have rights; people do, in this case the right to self-determination) doesn't override the rights of people living in Sweden. Your argument can be used to justify literally anything any government does, but I rather doubt you'd justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine via Russia's "right" (see above) to autonomy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) I see you moving the goalposts there, but fine. In that case: Sweden's "right" to autonomy (countries don't have rights; people do, in this case the right to self-determination) doesn't override the rights of people living in Sweden. Your argument can be used to justify literally anything any government does, but I rather doubt you'd justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine via Russia's "right" (see above) to autonomy. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) Okay I'm not sure if you're aware of this (if not you should do some introspection), but your argument is nothing more than window-dressing for your authoritarian values and disregard for human rights. In particular, your assumption that rules have some kind of sanctity that trumps personal liberty is frankly the kind of authoritarian bullshit that props up authoritarian regimes. How you assume rules that just so happen to justify the actions of authority figures is very telling; for context the actual rules here are the Brexit withdrawal agreement, under which British residents of the EU at the time of signing are to get residency in their host countries if they apply for it. I hope you become a better person; this conversation is over. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent