▲ -14 ▼ If you could reason with conspiracy people, they'd cease to exist. (lemmy.world) submitted 1 week ago by yesman@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world 36 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 week ago (1 child) I wouldn't say that Israel controls the US, but they do seem to control a large amount of legislators. permalink fedilink source hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] frisbird@lemmy.ml -7 points 1 week ago (2 children) You have it backwards. Yes Israeli interests are a top priority for US politicians. Why? Because Israel is a component of US interests. Much like it would not be correct to say that Lockheed controls senators but rather that Lockheed is a component of the interests that senators have, Israel is doing things that the US needs it to do to advance the US's interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] frisbird@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? It's not a conspiracy by Lockheed to control the US government to meet Lockheed's ends, and it's not a conspiracy by Israel to control the US government to meet Israel's ends. Both Lockheed and Israel serve the US, not the other way around. Lobbying is a coordinating function within the complex of factionalized collaborative/competitive dynamic of elite reproduction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 child) Thank you for the needlessly wordy definition of lobbying, it still exists to create loyalty within the government. Idk why you're trying so hard to let these groups off the hook for their share of the bad behavior. I get that you obviously want to appear Super Smart and superior, but you're just wrong here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I just don't think it's appropriate to say that Israel is controlling the USA, like the USA is some sort of victim. It's like saying the finance department is controlling the company. It's just a weird framing that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. Israel isn't controlling the USA. The USA and Israel are collaborators with the USA in the dominant position and Israel doing what it can to maintain its function within the empire against competing shared interests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent [–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 week ago (1 child) Both are true. Yes, the genocide in Palestine is ultimately a US choice, and Israel is ultimately a puppet of the west scapegoating Judaism for colonialism. But Israeli leaders are also slavish conspiratorialists hellbent on their singular goal of enabling never-ending war by keeping western politics locked in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 child) Israeli leaders are LITERALLY Western politicians. They don't control they West, they are a faction in the West permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago I think we are both saying true and fully compatible things. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] frisbird@lemmy.ml -7 points 1 week ago (2 children) You have it backwards. Yes Israeli interests are a top priority for US politicians. Why? Because Israel is a component of US interests. Much like it would not be correct to say that Lockheed controls senators but rather that Lockheed is a component of the interests that senators have, Israel is doing things that the US needs it to do to advance the US's interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] frisbird@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? It's not a conspiracy by Lockheed to control the US government to meet Lockheed's ends, and it's not a conspiracy by Israel to control the US government to meet Israel's ends. Both Lockheed and Israel serve the US, not the other way around. Lobbying is a coordinating function within the complex of factionalized collaborative/competitive dynamic of elite reproduction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 child) Thank you for the needlessly wordy definition of lobbying, it still exists to create loyalty within the government. Idk why you're trying so hard to let these groups off the hook for their share of the bad behavior. I get that you obviously want to appear Super Smart and superior, but you're just wrong here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I just don't think it's appropriate to say that Israel is controlling the USA, like the USA is some sort of victim. It's like saying the finance department is controlling the company. It's just a weird framing that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. Israel isn't controlling the USA. The USA and Israel are collaborators with the USA in the dominant position and Israel doing what it can to maintain its function within the empire against competing shared interests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent [–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 week ago (1 child) Both are true. Yes, the genocide in Palestine is ultimately a US choice, and Israel is ultimately a puppet of the west scapegoating Judaism for colonialism. But Israeli leaders are also slavish conspiratorialists hellbent on their singular goal of enabling never-ending war by keeping western politics locked in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 child) Israeli leaders are LITERALLY Western politicians. They don't control they West, they are a faction in the West permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago I think we are both saying true and fully compatible things. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] frisbird@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? It's not a conspiracy by Lockheed to control the US government to meet Lockheed's ends, and it's not a conspiracy by Israel to control the US government to meet Israel's ends. Both Lockheed and Israel serve the US, not the other way around. Lobbying is a coordinating function within the complex of factionalized collaborative/competitive dynamic of elite reproduction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 child) Thank you for the needlessly wordy definition of lobbying, it still exists to create loyalty within the government. Idk why you're trying so hard to let these groups off the hook for their share of the bad behavior. I get that you obviously want to appear Super Smart and superior, but you're just wrong here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I just don't think it's appropriate to say that Israel is controlling the USA, like the USA is some sort of victim. It's like saying the finance department is controlling the company. It's just a weird framing that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. Israel isn't controlling the USA. The USA and Israel are collaborators with the USA in the dominant position and Israel doing what it can to maintain its function within the empire against competing shared interests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[+] frisbird@lemmy.ml -6 points 1 week ago (1 child) I think it would be completely correct to say that Lockheed controls senators. Lockheed and Israel pay shitloads of money to get candidates elected that will stay loyal to them. What the fuck do you think lobbying is? It's not a conspiracy by Lockheed to control the US government to meet Lockheed's ends, and it's not a conspiracy by Israel to control the US government to meet Israel's ends. Both Lockheed and Israel serve the US, not the other way around. Lobbying is a coordinating function within the complex of factionalized collaborative/competitive dynamic of elite reproduction. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 child) Thank you for the needlessly wordy definition of lobbying, it still exists to create loyalty within the government. Idk why you're trying so hard to let these groups off the hook for their share of the bad behavior. I get that you obviously want to appear Super Smart and superior, but you're just wrong here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I just don't think it's appropriate to say that Israel is controlling the USA, like the USA is some sort of victim. It's like saying the finance department is controlling the company. It's just a weird framing that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. Israel isn't controlling the USA. The USA and Israel are collaborators with the USA in the dominant position and Israel doing what it can to maintain its function within the empire against competing shared interests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago (1 child) Thank you for the needlessly wordy definition of lobbying, it still exists to create loyalty within the government. Idk why you're trying so hard to let these groups off the hook for their share of the bad behavior. I get that you obviously want to appear Super Smart and superior, but you're just wrong here. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I just don't think it's appropriate to say that Israel is controlling the USA, like the USA is some sort of victim. It's like saying the finance department is controlling the company. It's just a weird framing that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. Israel isn't controlling the USA. The USA and Israel are collaborators with the USA in the dominant position and Israel doing what it can to maintain its function within the empire against competing shared interests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I just don't think it's appropriate to say that Israel is controlling the USA, like the USA is some sort of victim. It's like saying the finance department is controlling the company. It's just a weird framing that leads to all sorts of misunderstandings. Israel isn't controlling the USA. The USA and Israel are collaborators with the USA in the dominant position and Israel doing what it can to maintain its function within the empire against competing shared interests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's completely appropriate when AIPAC is spending millions of dollars to influence elections. I don't understand why you are being so dismissive of brazen interference by a foreign entity. The US is both a perpetrator and a victim. Is the wound self inflicted? Absolutely, but that doesn't make it not interference. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -3 points 1 week ago (1 child) THE US GAVE THAT MONEY TO AIPAC IN THE FIRST PLACE. AIPAC spending money is not foreign influence, it's domestic influence. Israel is a domestic policy issue, not a foreign policy one. Israel is far closer to the status of Puerto Rico vis-a-vis the USA than it is to say France or Australia. It's literally a vassal and a proxy without any possibility of existing independently of the USA. It's a subdivision of US interests, not outside of US interests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) Jesus christ, arguing with a wall would be more fun. Bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago Zionists to the left of me, Tankies to the right, here I am, stck in the middle with youuuuu permalink fedilink source parent
[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 week ago (1 child) Both are true. Yes, the genocide in Palestine is ultimately a US choice, and Israel is ultimately a puppet of the west scapegoating Judaism for colonialism. But Israeli leaders are also slavish conspiratorialists hellbent on their singular goal of enabling never-ending war by keeping western politics locked in. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 child) Israeli leaders are LITERALLY Western politicians. They don't control they West, they are a faction in the West permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago I think we are both saying true and fully compatible things. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] frisbird@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 week ago (1 child) Israeli leaders are LITERALLY Western politicians. They don't control they West, they are a faction in the West permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago I think we are both saying true and fully compatible things. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago I think we are both saying true and fully compatible things. permalink fedilink source parent
