▲ 1812 ▼ How to move a sofa (sh.itjust.works) submitted 1 week ago by chicken@sh.itjust.works to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world 350 comments fedilink hide all child comments Know a guy.
[+] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -8 points 1 week ago (2 children) Anecdotes and exceptions don't justify the erasure of marginalia. Like, why don't all blind people just become famous musicians so that they can be rich? Ray Charles did it. No one in their right mind would think that means blind people don't require assistance/accomodations. Your partner has disabilities but can drive a stick shift? Great. I guess the rest of us disabled people just need to bootstrap a little harder? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) I don't think we understand your point or how it relates to this post permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -4 points 1 week ago (1 child) Exactly. You don't, and you're unwilling to hear perspectives that conflict with your own, so you never will. That's only reinforcing the erasure of already-invisible marginalia. The whole point of what I'm saying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 child) It seems like you're saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago (1 child) My point is that we shouldn't be glorifying a society that relies on the goodwill of neighbors helping neighbors instead of funding structured social support programs that help everyone, including marginalized and disadvantaged people, to receive the help that they need. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent [–] axx@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I think we all understand you are angry and respect that (I hope). But saying it's nice and good when people are helpful doesn't imply that peiple who can't help are not nice and good. There's some kind of logical fallacy in that interpretation of it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 week ago It's not just about whether a person can help about and whether that makes them nice and good. It's more about, there are people who get left out of society and they would struggle to find the help we need if we leave it entirely up to the good will of people helping their neighbors. There needs to be more structured support, like taxpayer-funded programs designed to help everyone to receive the support they need, including (and especially) the people who are the most disadvantaged. Helping your neighbor is good and shouldn't go away. But we shouldn't rely on that as a society to help the people who need it most. And we certainly shouldn't glorify a society that does depend on that, instead of funding structured social support programs that make a point not to leave anyone out who needs help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] protist@retrofed.com 7 points 1 week ago (1 child) I don't think we understand your point or how it relates to this post permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -4 points 1 week ago (1 child) Exactly. You don't, and you're unwilling to hear perspectives that conflict with your own, so you never will. That's only reinforcing the erasure of already-invisible marginalia. The whole point of what I'm saying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 child) It seems like you're saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago (1 child) My point is that we shouldn't be glorifying a society that relies on the goodwill of neighbors helping neighbors instead of funding structured social support programs that help everyone, including marginalized and disadvantaged people, to receive the help that they need. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -4 points 1 week ago (1 child) Exactly. You don't, and you're unwilling to hear perspectives that conflict with your own, so you never will. That's only reinforcing the erasure of already-invisible marginalia. The whole point of what I'm saying. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 child) It seems like you're saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago (1 child) My point is that we shouldn't be glorifying a society that relies on the goodwill of neighbors helping neighbors instead of funding structured social support programs that help everyone, including marginalized and disadvantaged people, to receive the help that they need. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] protist@retrofed.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 child) It seems like you're saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago (1 child) My point is that we shouldn't be glorifying a society that relies on the goodwill of neighbors helping neighbors instead of funding structured social support programs that help everyone, including marginalized and disadvantaged people, to receive the help that they need. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago (1 child) My point is that we shouldn't be glorifying a society that relies on the goodwill of neighbors helping neighbors instead of funding structured social support programs that help everyone, including marginalized and disadvantaged people, to receive the help that they need. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] protist@retrofed.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] protist@retrofed.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 1 week ago You're missing the part where these "neighbors who help when needed" tend to exclude anyone they don't view as worthy of their help, and that can come loaded with as many biases as people have Relying on that as a society excludes people. That's what my entire point has been about. It's great that your neighbor finds the help that he needs, but that doesn't mean everyone does. And acting like naming one example, or even several examples, contradicts the statement that there are people who get left out, is erasure. It's like pointing to an example of a rich Black man and saying "See, Black people don't struggle with poverty" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] axx@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago* (1 child) I think we all understand you are angry and respect that (I hope). But saying it's nice and good when people are helpful doesn't imply that peiple who can't help are not nice and good. There's some kind of logical fallacy in that interpretation of it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 week ago It's not just about whether a person can help about and whether that makes them nice and good. It's more about, there are people who get left out of society and they would struggle to find the help we need if we leave it entirely up to the good will of people helping their neighbors. There needs to be more structured support, like taxpayer-funded programs designed to help everyone to receive the support they need, including (and especially) the people who are the most disadvantaged. Helping your neighbor is good and shouldn't go away. But we shouldn't rely on that as a society to help the people who need it most. And we certainly shouldn't glorify a society that does depend on that, instead of funding structured social support programs that make a point not to leave anyone out who needs help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 week ago It's not just about whether a person can help about and whether that makes them nice and good. It's more about, there are people who get left out of society and they would struggle to find the help we need if we leave it entirely up to the good will of people helping their neighbors. There needs to be more structured support, like taxpayer-funded programs designed to help everyone to receive the support they need, including (and especially) the people who are the most disadvantaged. Helping your neighbor is good and shouldn't go away. But we shouldn't rely on that as a society to help the people who need it most. And we certainly shouldn't glorify a society that does depend on that, instead of funding structured social support programs that make a point not to leave anyone out who needs help. permalink fedilink source parent
