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[–] 21 points 2 days ago (3 children)

The largest non-voting registered group in the 2024 election were those associated with neither party: independents and unaffiliated voters.

About a quarter of eligible voters aren't even registered on top of that.

"Both sides are bad" statements aren't necessarily driving partisans to not vote. They are, or can be however, an important message for those two big parties running the elections to hear from the people.

It's also, possibly one of the few talking points that forces acknowledgement that those independent, unaffiliated, and unregistered voters exist and whose interests might matter towards the outcome of policy and/or elections.

But yes, the interests that align with at least the GOP are furthered when votes are suppressed, that has been demonstrably true for decades.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    What if people are unaffiliated or unregistered because they believe both sides are bad?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago* (2 children)

    Then the posts aren't encouraging them to change any behavior. This premise only works if you have partisan voters deciding not to vote because of the Both-Sidesism.

    If it is the default case that a party already does not have the any votes of the largest mass of voters, then the parties should focus on gaining their support.

    But also: more libertarians protested the GOP over Both-Sidesism than leftists, so technically it still had a net benefit effect for Harris. Which further demonstrates how flawed the whole premise is.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Wait are you legitimately claiming that both sides rhetoric doesn't discourage voter turn out? Do you have literally any evidence to support that claim?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    I don't know about 'discourage' since I was referring to protest 3rd party votes. But too many people didn't even know Biden dropped out to suggest the rhetoric was causing meaningful influence.

    Now, I do know that RFK and Chase Oliver together took more votes (~0.9%) than the Greens and PSL combined (~0.7%). So as far as protest votes over Both-Sideism likely went it probably didn't hurt Harris, and may have actually been a net gain for Harris.

    The entire combined third party vote would have had to pretty much 100% gone for Harris for the Democratic Party to have won the popular vote (which is still irrelevant because of the electoral college.)

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  • [–] -2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    I don't really follow.

    We're not talking about well informed Lemmy users weighing the policies of candidates and deciding to abstain from voting because Gaza.

    We're talking about apathetic low information voters looking for an excuse not to get off the couch on polling day.

    "Both sides" is the classic strategy to keep these voters on the couch.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago

    We're not talking about well informed Lemmy users weighing the policies of candidates and deciding to abstain from voting because Gaza.

    We're talking about apathetic low information voters looking for an excuse not to get off the couch on polling day.

    I guess, though a meme on Lemmy talking about social media posts would have me leaning to the former than the latter. I would wager, in fact, this meme is very strongly directed at Lemmy users who weigh policy.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    It's also, possibly one of the few talking points that forces acknowledgement that those independent, unaffiliated, and unregistered voters exist and whose interests might matter towards the outcome of policy and/or elections.

    On its own, it doesn't quite force the second half of that acknowledgement: The missing part is the "or else".

    So far, the most charitable interpretation, if we disregard corruption for a moment, is that the party elite doesn't really see those interests because they have been too far removed from these voters for too long, if they've ever known it at all. Humble beginnings don't mean shit if you haven't lived humbly for the last few decades any more. So even in the best case, these people will struggle to actually comprehend. They also know that voters are faced with the choice between them and Republicans and can count on a chunk of people to vote just to avert the worst result. And they themselves aren't affected that badly by a potential defeat.

    This disconnect is clearly visible in the shocked reactions to the "insurgency" of progressive politicians winning primaries: They don't know or don't want to admit what appeal those upstarts have that they don't, but at least they now realise that these other groups exist and matter.

    Hence, "both sides bad" on its own is a criticism without a solution. It incites fatalism without rallying support for an alternative. Voting in primaries can have an effect, and if people genuinely don't want to vote D just to stop R in the general election, they should vote for some third party. Agreeing on a progressive candidate would help, but even without agreement, it would signal support for breaking out from that game of two.

    (This also matters beyond the pure democratic mechanism: signalling that support can help other unhappy people to see that they're not alone and encourage them to join whatever form of resistance may emerge in their area. Even if votes might not change anything directly, they're a communication tool.)

    A Roman satirist once remarked on the fact that the people were all too excited to celebrate a failed coup, but would have been just as excited to hail the new emperor. To paraphrase, they have given up oversight, and those whose votes once decided over offices and command of armies now only hope for "bread and circuses" (stable grain supply and public entertainment, basically). The full meaning is more complex, but the part that's relevant to me here is his contempt for the non-voters whose complacency led to a situation where they can no longer hope for more than bare necessities and a bit of distraction.

    In that sense: Vote. Don't cede ground to those who want you to not vote. A voice that doesn't speak isn't heard. Even a "wasted" vote is better than silence.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 days ago

    Hard truth. Nobody gives a fuck about those voters. If they are mad and decide not to vote for whatever reason a decision will still be made without their input.

    Witholding your vote will not stop the process and will actively Help the worst elements of each party.

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