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The verdict is in: Canadians hate America thanks to Trump (www.independent.co.uk)
submitted 5 days ago by to c/FuckTheUSA@lemmy.ca
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[–] 46 points 5 days ago (2 children)

No, thanks to the people who elected Trump. This isn't going away when Trump dies.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

    It's not just the people, it's the culture. Even USians that voted against Trump are marinating in a largely badly educated culture steeped in racism, unquestioning patriotism that often and overtly overflows into nationalism, a belief in exceptionalism, militarism and predatory capitalism. Fostering egotism, not necessarily stupidity but a hugely self-centered ignorance and aggressive distrust of a society that is overly individualist and a state that is corrupt.

    Trump and his ilk are not the cause, but the symptom of this underlying sickness. And to heal that would take an enormous national effort to move away from money in politics, away from a national narrative of being better and more free, away from pride and towards rolling up your sleeves and going to work to fix things and where necessary reform not only society but how people are taught and think towards critical analysis and towards a more balanced approach between individual and societal freedoms.

    An effort so enormous that I cannot fault the people who say this cannot be reformed peacefully and will likely result into a violent negotiation of the path forward. (Not that this would be preferred or even welcome, just that it is likely to either happen if, or be needed as a prerequisite that, meaningful change happens)

    And the US is far from the only country that needs to change it's just the worst offender concerning pride in how fucked up they are AND as the cultural and military hegemon of the west their behavior affects others the most.

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  • [+] -28 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    To be fair, some didn't realize what was actually going to happen and were naive and regret what they'd done.

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  • [–] 33 points 5 days ago (4 children)

    That excuse might have worked in the first term. But after Jan 6, there was no doubt about what Trump is. Americans voted for him anyway.

    This is just who Americans are. There is no reason to believe someone like Trump (or worse) won't get into power in the future.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (1 child)

    I think part of the problem is that Trump wasn't prosecuted for January 6th. Some people won't believe it happened, or won't believe it was a serious issue, unless it is prosecuted. Right now, I think my grandmother doesn't believe Trump is as bad as I say he is because she has enough faith in legal systems that she believes something would be being done about it if he were actually committing such serious crimes. To be clear, my grandmother recognizes Trump is bad but not as bad as he really is.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    That's part of the problem sure. But when seeing what went down on Jan 6 and you're reaction is "this is fine", there's something deeper going on. The lack of prosecution shouldn't make people think "well maybe he didn't do anything wrong" it should make people think "why the hell isn't he in prison already?"

    A lot of people have been made to be paranoid of "them". Who is "them"? it's very arbitrary, could be black people, trans people, gays, Jews, Asians, Hispanic people, anyone can be considerd "them". You should be cautious of "them". "They" are probably up to all kinds of nefarious things. Things aren't as good as they could be because of "them".

    Trump represents a deep seated paranoia of the other. Even if they understand that Trump is a terrible person, they feel that he (or someone like him) is necessary to protect us all from "them".

    This feeling exists in every society, but it's particularly malignant in the US. This isn't going to be over when Trump kicks the bucket.

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  • [–] 19 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    As soon as Trump voters were fine with the "grab them by the pussy"-tape, they showed that they were indeed all evil assholes. And that was before he was elected in 2016.

    There is no excuse.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago

    For many years of my life I buried my head in the sand on politics. Ignorance is bliss, etc. Not everyone is paying attention, maybe heard something from a passerby or a friend, or listened to fox news while at their dentist appointment, etc.

    I don't think people give enough thought as to other peoples lifestyles. Then you have the base that was just fed up with democrats and wanted change.

    Woot to their 2 party system, I guess.

    My point is, not everyone pays as close attention as they should or are educated enough to vote, and that's an issue.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    Well, they had a trial run. Not only that they got plenty of warning from those outside.

    I don’t know how many passes we have to give the American population ay. No one else gets the same grace.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    That's true, certainly.

    But just for the sake of an accurate recording of history:

    • His second term is MARKEDLY different from his first in terms of scale. Trumps "big boy" economic policy dick swinging was reformulating NAFTA... but it was still an agreement within the context of international norms. Term two? Tariffs, legal and otherwise. His bullying was constrained to putting on a show about building a well. Now he's invaded 2 countries in a year, openly threatens NATO allies. The blockade of Cuba. Paramilitary via ICE. DOGE. Open gifts. Selling pardons. The themes are similar, but the scale is orders of magnitude different.

    -Americans did reject him after his first term.

    Now, none of this is an excuse. He was bad enough term 1 to be incomprehensible as someone to ever be elected again. And project 2025 was telegraphed. There is no excuse. But his first term and his second term are significantly different in scale, not even really comparable.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago (1 child)

    They might be, but there was still plenty enough warning.

    This is across the board too, the supposed progressive party saw what was happening as well as the people.

    Honestly, that it was somewhat different is an afterthought and we knew beforehand it would be.

    They even told everyone.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago* (1 child)

    Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying. Project 2025 was pretty clearly the template for his next term. It was all in the open. There is no excuse.

    But for anyone not paying any attention and perfectly ignorant of anything beyond thier lived experience of his first term (gonna say that's a lot of people, honestly): I don't think this is what they expected.

    I think some of those people who weren't paying attention and were going off stale memories of his first term... they're not happy. But... I think other people in that group are actually thrilled. So, as a whole, still kinda balances out.

    So, no justifications or excuses... but I do think some people got something different from what they expected.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    TWICE??

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 child)

    Our ability to forgive their ignorance should be measured. We should do our best to help them learn, certainly, but they need to understand the gravity of their choices. Anger is part of that

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    I think a lot of them have learned. I've seen so many clips of people coming out saying it was the worst decision they ever made. Sadly, that's a handful I'm sure.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago*

    This is why the Untied States should allow for early elections if the president fucks up badly enough. In Canada, sometimes elections are called early if enough people are unhappy with the government

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