829
We're just showing off (media.piefed.world)
submitted 6 days ago by to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 140 points 6 days ago (5 children)

The story is way more insane, the Greek messenger, Pheidippides, did two runs, a round trip from Athens to Sparta and back, like 480km through mountains in two days, then (during the battle of Marathon) his final run from Marathon to Athens (40km), the one he is famous for, saying "Nike! " meaning Greek "we won!" before collapsing and dying.

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  • [–] 77 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    480km through mountains in two days

    Lol, my man was running 10 kilometers per hour for 48 hours straight?

    Like with anything in Ancient Greek history, the numbers they quote are typically meaningless. The amount of exaggeration or straight up lying they did back then would make kim jong il blush.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    I'm sure they're lying but running an average of 10 kilometers per hour over 48 hours isn't insane

    Usain Bolt's top speed is 44 kilometers per hour. Maybe the dude wasn't that fast or running top speed the whole time but his job was running a lot I'm sure he was fast as fuck.

    So maybe it averaged out and it was only exaggerated a little bit?

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  • [–] 34 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    They have ultra marathons where you run for 24 hours straight, and this guy would have smoked the current record holder going over rough terrain.

    People in general are more athletic nowadays, but our top athletes are basically inhuman compared to athletes from 75 years ago, let alone 2000 years.

    It's most likely a straight up lie, or exaggerated by several multitudes. Ancient "historians" are pretty famous for exaggerating things to make things look more heroic.

    For example Herodotus claimed Xerxes led an invasion force of over 5 million people, in reality it was more like 100k-300k. This was well known even as far back as the Roman, who called Herodotus both the father of history and the father of lies.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    I mean yeah it's definitely a lie I'm not saying it isn't.

    But I do think it's not that insane of a lie. I mean for one apparently the guy died and for two genetic freak factor.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago

    It's insane, and science agrees. Read up on Functional Threshold Pace (FTP), which is what would be a factor in runs like this. The sheer amount of fueling (food+water) required to keep pace going would be insanely impossible for 480km, unaided, without stops. And I mean all caps INSANE.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago

    I still think it's pretty crazy. The "genetic freak factor" is still moderated by the conditions of their environment.

    We have a lot more genetically gifted athletes now then back then, and our genetically gifted athletes grew up with diets fortified with vitamins and other nutrients. If modern athletes even slightly struggle with doing something similar, ancient athletes would find it impossible.

    It's just as crazy as claiming that someone from ancient greece would be able to compete on the same level as Usain Bolt in sprinting.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 days ago (5 children)

    10km per hour over 48 hours is absolutely insane, and the comparison with Bolt's 100m world record doesn't make any sense.

    The ultramarathon world record holders today might do it : the closest existing event is the Spartathlon, a one-way Athens-Sparta race, for which the records are around 20h. Which leaves 8h of sleep before you have to do the world record run a second time...

    Another decent comparison is the 48h ultramarathon. Matthieu Bonne broke the world record at 485km in 48h in 2025, the previous one being 475km.

    But Matthieu Bonne is running on a flat rubber track. And both examples have modern shoes, nutrition and a support team following them.

    So we are supposing our guy is world record material, even though he is selected from a population of 30k male Athenian citizen at the time. We are supposing he is running the world record twice, back to back, in sandals and without anyone to help him on the way. And/or we are supposing he is running as fast as a guy doing it on flat rubber.

    It's not quite impossible (or only slightly exaggerated) but it sure as hell is absolutely insane.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Definitely insane but I don't think it's that insane. There are definitely far more embellishments that are unbelievable than that.

    I do also think we should account for straight genetic freaks. They lived back then too. I doubt this guy was one but I'd bet the fastest person that ever lived has a higher likelihood of being lost to history than competing professionally today

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    To be fair, I don't think the most gifted genetic freak in history running bare foot or in sandals would beat today's elite with access to modern training science, nutrition and equipment. That stuff makes a huge difference.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    He also fought in a battle immediately after the run. Then ran some more. Then died.

    You don't think someone could run themselves to death? Humans are capable of miraculous things.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    I remember a similar argument about how it was impossible for the Egyptians to have built the pyramids. It comes down to ‘I don’t understand how it could be done, so it’s impossible’

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  • [–] 11 points 6 days ago* (1 child)

    My brother in Christ yes the poets exaggerate but we can map the distance from cities with lasers in space so we know how far he ran. The question is how fast.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Right, but I'm not disputing the distance between cities. That's not the subjective information in this claim. I am disputing if he actually ran a full round trip, just from one to the other, or even just part of that. We could also ask how long it took, or if he even ran it at all.

    When ancient sources claim unbelievable things, it is fairly reasonable to just not believe them.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    All right, but it isn't exactly unbelievable that someone ran for 2 days then keeled over dead, from exhaustion.

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  • [–] 18 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    I think how it's depicted is pretty suspicious. If a modern politician like Trump claimed something like that would you believe him?

    "Pheidippides was a tremendous runner, really the greatest messenger in the history of messengers. When the Persians (very bad people) were attacking, the generals went to him and said, "We need a runner." He didn't complain. He ran, he fought, he ran again.

    He ran all the way to Athens to deliver the good news. He sprinted the whole way, arrived, and shouted, "We won!" (truly a beautiful message). And because he gave it his absolute all, he was totally drained and he tragically collapsed and died. Very sad, but a perfect ending for a hero. Nobody ran better than Pheidippides."

    Is that very believable to you? Or does it ring of nationalistic propaganda?

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  • [–] 0 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    Normally in propaganda the hero doesn't fall over dead from human limitations.

    It's far more believable than: Philip the demigod was so tuff he could run for two days straight and not break a sweat.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 days ago

    Heroic sacrifice is a very common trope in propaganda.....Also, I wouldn't claim him to be the overall hero of the battle of marathon. That would prob be Miltiades, Themistocles, or Aristides.

    The popularization of the tale of someone running matarathon wasn't popularized until Plutarch wrote about it nearly 500 years later and he named the runner "Eucles, although also possible Thersippus of Eroeada", then around 100 years later Lucian of Samosata gave the same story but names the runner Philippides (not Pheidippides).

    Philip the demigod was so tuff he could run for two days straight and not break a sweat.

    And there is a difference between mythology and history.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    It's a story that went through millennia, I think a bit of inaccuracy is valid. I mean, I only need a few beers to embellish my stories.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (2 children)

    I mean ok but what here do you think has been embellished? we know the distance we know human endurance and average health for the time period. As far as ancient stories go this one is pretty cut and dry factual IMHO. No magic no divine fate just a man running until burnout

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    The first-known written account of a run from Marathon to Athens occurs in the works of the Greek writer Plutarch (46–120 AD), in his essay "On the Glory of Athens". Plutarch attributes the run to a herald called either Thersippus or Eukles. Lucian, a century later, credits one "Philippides". It seems likely that in the 500 years between Herodotus's time and Plutarch's, the story of Pheidippides had become muddled with that of the Battle of Marathon (in particular with the story of the Athenian forces making the march from Marathon to Athens in order to intercept the Persian ships headed there), and some fanciful writer had invented the story of the run from Marathon to Athens. Magill and Moose (2003) suggest that the story of the Marathon–Athens run and Pheidippides's death is likely a "romantic invention". They point out that Lucian is the only classical source with all the elements of the story known in modern culture as the "Marathon story of Pheidippides": a messenger running from the fields of Marathon to announce victory, then dying on completion of his mission

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (2 children)

    Maybe he had a horse?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (1 child)

    If he had a horse he wouldn't have died....

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    Also didn’t they have horses?

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  • [–] 11 points 6 days ago

    The Greeks weren’t really noted for their horsemanship and a man can outrun a horse anyway.

    However having fresh horses at properly spaced outposts like the Romans used are far superior.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 days ago

    Yes, but at this time only your very wealthiest members of the aristocracy would be able to afford one. That part of greece is too mountainous to easily breed and take care of horses, so they became more of a status symbol than anything. It's one of the reasons why Macedonia was able to conquer the southern Greek states with relative ease.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago (1 child)

    Horses actually just walk the whole way. You can do about 30 miles a day.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    480 km in two days in the mountains

    Sure ya did Pheidippides. Sure ya did.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    But… they won… what was the big rush on his way back? Like if he was trying to outpace an incoming invasion, THAT I could understand. Was he in that much of a hurry to get the party started?

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  • [–] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

    The initial story that was told just involved the run to Sparta in a single day prior to the battle to ask for assistance. After the Athenians won the battle, they marched the 40km to Athens in full armor in order to arrive before the retreating Persians could launch a naval attack on the city itself. Later, these two stories got combined into the popular legend that's described in this post.

    So yeah, the rush was that they were trying to outpace an incoming invasion. They won the battle, but the war was still on. Their rush back to Athens allowed them to stop a direct assault on the city, which led the Persians to retreat entirely.

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