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Switzerland bolted 5,000 solar panels onto a dam wall 8,000 feet up in the freezing Alps. The plant now makes three times more winter power than any farm down in the valleys (www.ecoportal.net)
submitted 4 weeks ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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Up on the dam, almost everything that looks like a problem becomes an advantage.

The plant sits above the fog line, in thin, clear air that lets far more sunlight through.

The higher you go, the stronger and cleaner the sunlight becomes.

Cold actually helps, because solar panels work more efficiently when they are not baking in heat.

And then there is the snow, which acts like a giant mirror, bouncing extra light up onto the panels from below.

Scientists call it the albedo effect, and it can lift a mountain plant’s output well beyond anything possible in the valley.

A test site at a similar height recorded yearly output far above a typical Swiss plant.

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[–] 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

So you're happy to go without power after sunset then?
Until we have more storage options or diversified sources then that's what you get. Or do you think it will all happen by magic?
Maybe try being less rude unless you have a solution that doesn't just involve wishful thinking.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Wait till they find out about batteries!

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

    Ffs this is exactly what I mean.... To power Switzerland for only 6 hours (38GWh), you would need approximately 30,000 to 35,000 utility-scale batteries. Where and how exactly are you building them?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Not a problem if you have your own panels and your own battery.

    I'm not a city planner so i dont know where they'd go if you want to support the whole country, maybe ask one of them?

    Also, you don't need to immediately take over the electricity of the whole damn country. Just start with one battery park somewhere, that already helps somewhat, and build out from there.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Who is paying for it? I have solar and battery at home. It cost me an amount that a lot of people can't afford and its rare that I don't have to pull from the grid every day while at other times the power company is paying me to take energy from the grid because there is too much renewable energy being produced.
    My country is building out battery parks as much as its able to. Every site seems to get bogged down with nimby protesters who all seems to want renewable energy but not near them. I am all for renewable energy, I just think a lot of people don't understand the scale of whats required to replace a single nuclear power plant.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Well in the case of the Netherlands, solar panels used to be subsidised by the government (I think that program ended last year or something), and currently, you can get subsidies for home batteries. The government does also want to fix the grif after all.

    There's actually quite a lot of people here that have solar panels and a home battery here, enough to make a measurable difference when imbalance ia high.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    Must solve all problems at the same time for entire country, can't possibly wind things down while building up alternatives. Only good solution is nuclear, ignore all previous nuclear issues, they were one offs that only happened because people were stupid. We now smart humans will never have stupid or corrupt people.

    Really I don't even dislike nuclear, some people treat it as the only option when there are clearly alternatives, and solar and batteries appears to be one.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    That's what is happening but it not happening fast enough. Batteries are great but unless you build out a LOT of them and combine with intelligent grids and power consumption you aren't covering the output of a nuclear power plant. If you are decommissioning a nuclear plant then you had better have alternative power available otherwise you end up like Germany who did that and then had pull a lot of power from Frances nuclear excess as well as burning extra gas for power. I like renewables, I have solar + battery at home, I've built flow battery models and fuel cells to experiment with. I've written software to turn my house (and hopefully include my neighbours soon) into a virtual power plant based on my houses output as well as the wholesale market price. It's difficult to manage when people expect a light to turn on at any time they want. I just get tired of people saying renewables are the only option and when it inevitably isn't just yet having to burn more fossil fuels when the existing nuclear plant can continue

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    That is rad. My father started with solar domestic hot water heating, then got some PV solar, never bothered with batteries (it was at a time when batteries kind of sucked). Did ok for our northern latitudes. Power company didn't encourage it though which makes it feel like a bit of an uphill battle. I'm thinking of doing my own house but again, it seems like you've got to be the expert if you want to make it work, and power companies aren't happy to have your contributions.

    I guess I just get a bit - understanding when people say they are scared of nuclear. I do realize that in aggregate fossile has been way worse than nuclear.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Supply controlled energy grid.

    Money is extremely good at influencing energy demand. If your power bill increases tenfold per kwh at night then you will do your laundry during the day when it's cheap. It only requires smart electric meters which are starting to be the norm.

    Electric cars can further function as home batteries if they support bidirectional charging.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Ah yes, the abstinence technique. Brilliant.

    I for one like the ability to heat my home at night in the winter, not have it be >30°C inside in the summer (system has to catch up at night), keep my living space at a reasonable humidity, cook food, and use modern amenities without incurring a ridiculous cost.

    There's no other way to cut it. We will need more electrical capacity than today, not less.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago*

    Why would you be heating at night?

    Like seriously, I don't know anyone who doesn't turn their heating significantly down before going to bed. You only need to heat the bedrooms which are also generally colder.

    Same with air conditioning. It's primarily needed when it's actually hot, which - as it turns out - is when the sun is shining and energy prices are low.

    Besides: It completely ignores decentralized energy storage. Households with batteries can just let them charge when energy prices are low and discharge when prices are high.

    There's a reason smart meters are starting to be mandated. People will need to adjust their habits slightly¹ but that's just the price to pay for sustainable energy.

    ¹Like very slightly. As in checking the energy price forecast before doing laundry.

    Edit: A couple basic introductions to the topic to read up on if you're interested:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter (also read up on AMI)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_grid

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