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war, war never rules (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 month ago by [M] to c/onehundredninetysix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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[–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (1 child)

While a utopia is always an admirable goal, I would like to know what diplomatic relations look like in your viewpoint with Russia.

Diplomatic relations are not utopian by any stretch. It's literally this or all out war with Russia. For reference as to what diplomatic relationships with Russia could look like: Look at China, India, Iran or pre 2022 Germany and how they inttract with Russia.

Further, why is Russia invading Ukraine?

I'm not here to disentangle that historical ball of yarn. Also: I believe that you're already predetermined to call me names if I don't give you the answer that you already accepted as the one truth.

Do you believe that if Ukraine capitulated, disbanded their military and became Russia that the people of Ukraine would be safer?

I think that if Ukraine accepted the treaty of March 2022, then hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians would still be alive. Also: Russia never wanted to annex the whole of Ukraine.

Do you believe that the current Russian government would stop expansionism with just the annexation of Ukraine?

Again: I reject the premise. Russia never wanted to annex Ukraine.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago (1 child)

    Diplomatic relations are not utopian by any stretch. It's literally this or all out war with Russia.

    Diplomatic relations isn't, but disbanding of militaries and police certainly is. As to how Germany's diplomatic relationship is lacking, isn't the only difference with how China is interacting sanctions for the war? If the only option for embargoing oil trade is all out war, I think that is a lack of imagination at play.

    Also: I believe that you're already predetermined to call me names if I don't give you the answer that you already accepted as the one truth.

    Why would I call you names? What would make you think I would?

    As you do not wish to discuss this, I can only infer that you might think that Russian annexation of Crimea and Donbas regions is for reasons other than territorial expansion of farmland, industrial centers, and naval ports. I personally do not think there is any justifiable reason for the invasion, even if you believe Ukraine was a 100% Nazi country and the Eastern third of the country was asking for Russia to come liberate them.

    if Ukraine accepted the treaty of March 2022, then hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians would still be alive. Also: Russia never wanted to annex the whole of Ukraine.

    If Russia had held to the Budapest Memorandum, thousands of Ukranians and Russians would still be alive. Ukraine would also have lost a third of their territory and been weakened against follow up hostilities with no binding guarantees of lasting peace.

    Again: I reject the premise. Russia never wanted to annex Ukraine.

    Just like you reject the premise that Russia would annex all of Ukraine if given the chance, I reject the premise that Russia wants to stop at liberating ethnic Russians living in Donbas and Crimea. I believe it far more likely that Putin would like to strengthen Russia by reconquering the former Soviet bloc and restoring national empire as his legacy.

    I believe there is a goal of Greater Russia the same way China annexed Nepal, and the same early I believe there is a goal of Greater Israel in Syria. Both countries would happily annex their neighbors, especially as buffer zones against nearby "hostile" neighbors.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 weeks ago

    Diplomatic relations isn't, but disbanding of militaries and police certainly is.

    Yes. I already said that this was not realistic to happen overnight.

    As to how Germany's diplomatic relationship is lacking, isn't the only difference with how China is interacting sanctions for the war? If the only option for embargoing oil trade is all out war, I think that is a lack of imagination at play.

    I gave an example on what diplomacy could look like. You asked for it. That doesn't mean that it has to happen in whatever uay you think China is doing diplomacy.

    Why would I call you names? What would make you think I would?

    Experience on lemmy. Most people on here can't distinguish between acknowledging that a state government can have coherent reasons for acting in a certain way and the condoning of these actions. If I say that Russia has invaded Ukraine due to security concerns (as they have stated for years before 2014), someone on lemmy will accuse me of simping for Putin.

    You yourself conflated reasons with justifiable reasons. I want to disband state military and police. What makes you think that I want to justify Russia's invasion. I just donwt automatically jump to the conclusion that the Ukrainian regime has the population's best interest at heart.

    If Russia had held to the Budapest Memorandum, thousands of Ukranians and Russians would still be alive.

    Couldawouldashoulda. I could claim the same about the Nato not expand eastward after the fall of the soviet union.

    Ukraine would also have lost a third of their territory

    I couldn't care less about where the borders between two corrupt countries lie.

    and been weakened against follow up hostilities with no binding guarantees of lasting peace.

    I reject the claim that follow-up hostilities would have been carried out.

    I believe it far more likely that Putin would like to strengthen Russia by reconquering the former Soviet bloc and restoring national empire as his legacy.

    I think that's motivated reasoning. I know as little as you do about the innermost feelings that Putin has. I know however about his statements about Ukraine eyeing the possibility of becoming a Nato member and that this is strictly against Russian interests. And I don't think Putin is that stupid to think that the old USSR population is keen to giving power back to Moscow.

    I believe there is a goal of Greater Russia the same way China annexed Nepal, and the same early I believe there is a goal of Greater Israel in Syria. Both countries would happily annex their neighbors, especially as buffer zones against nearby "hostile" neighbors.

    Your examples aren't really comparable with the old soviet block.

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