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Mamdani calls AIPAC ‘monsters’ in rally ahead of NY primaries (www.jpost.com)
submitted 1 month ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[–] -4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

So would you support the idea of ethno-states in general?

Not in general. When I was younger I didn't have a problem with there being a Jewish state, but I didn't think it was a necessity. I didn't think there would ever be large numbers of people becoming antisemitic. Sure there'd always be some white power losers, but not any significant movement based around antisemitism.

The antisemitism I've seen since October 7 has changed my mind. The attacks on synagogues, Jewish businesses, and harassment campaigns against Jews (there's even campaigns against holocaust museums) has convinced me that something akin to 1930s Germany can happen again. During that time Jews try to flee but no country would accept Jewish refugees.

It's a sad state the world is in today. Antisemitism is happening, we know it's connected to this "anti-zionist" movement, but people pretend it's not happening out of political expedience.

Leftists have always had a weakness towards anti-semitism (the old greedy capitalist Jew stereotype) as has the far right. In 1930s Germany the leftists and fascists joined together over their shared hatred of Jews. BTW, read about the night of the long knives if you want the biggest "leopards ate my face" moment in history, things didn't go well for the socialists once they were no longer useful to the fascists. Something to think about when you're rubbing shoulders with violent people that hate Jews.

History doesn't repeat itself but is sure does rhyme. We're in a dangerous time and we know antisemitism is a real force in radical politics on both the left and right, as much is you deny it because it's inconvenient to your narrative.

The need for a Jewish state is a indicator of a failure of humanity. It's sad that it has to be this way. Just as I wish that racism didn't exist at all, I wish there didn't need to be a Jewish state. But unfortunately racism does exist, and antisemitism is on the rise along with radical politics in which it is embedded. We've seen this story play out before.

I'll do what I can to make sure my country (Canada) will not repeat the mistakes it made in the past when asylum was not granted Jewish refugees from Germany. Recent statements by Mark Carney gives me some hope that at least Canada has learned from the past. But the constant attacks on synagogues in my country make me feel like the efforts by those that have read a history book may not be enough. So there needs to be a country of last resort for Jews.

This is not how I want the world to be, I'm just recognizing the reality of the world we're currently living in.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)
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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Are you not aware there are a number of majority Muslim states in the world? There is only one majority Jewish state and you want it gone, while being suspiciously vague about how you want to accomplish that.

    There's a good case to be made for the Roma to have a state, but their history is being nomadic (so where would that state be?) and there doesn't seem to be the will within the Roma people to form a state.

    Since you're making silly comparisons with other ethnicities, do you think it's wrong for indigenous people to claim a cultural connection to the land? If it's wrong for Jews to feel a connection to the land of their ancestors then it must also be wrong for indigenous people to feel a similar connection to the land of their ancestors? for that matter, do you feel it's wrong for Palestinians to feel a connection to the land of their ancestors?

    Personally I'm pragmatic. Everyone has to live somewhere and people have a right to live where they were born, otherwise you end up with stateless people who will inevitably be oppressed. Like the Roma. More than 80% of the Jews in Israel were born there, so they have the right to live there. I was born on land that was taken from other people in the past, but I have a right to live in my country, because where else would I live?

    I hope that many countries would allow in Jewish if we see a repeat of the antisemitc hatred of the past. We are currently headed in that direction. But I do recognize that antisemitc movements in the past and in the present are international movements (oh the irony that the real global schemers are the antisemites). So there's no guarantee that there will be any country that will give safe harbour to Jews... except for one.

    I bring up the Night of the Long Knives to remind you want happens to socialists that become adjacent to fascists. Y'all are so busy congratulating yourselves for seeing some problems with capitalism and discovering antisemitic conspiracy theories for the first time in your lives, you don't see the pattern you're following.

    The best argument for a Jewish state is to just read what people post on this site.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (1 child)

    So you're saying the Jews need their own space as a matter of survival? I think the Germans had a word for that: lebensraum.

    The reality of the situation is that zionists have spent the last four years systematically exterminating the population of Palestine through a combination of direct violence, terror, and apparently a coordinated effort to cause mass starvation.

    In the last year, they've moved on to Lebanon and Syria.

    Conflating Zionism and semitism won't make me think the atrocities being carried out right now are okay. I will remain an anti-zionist. You might convince me to become an anti-semite, though.

    Edit: to clarify, this isnt a Jewish problem. The problem is being caused by the political entity we know as Israel, not the ethnic group we call Jews. Now both the political entity we call Israel, and actual anti-semites, have a vested interest in conflating the two.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    The problem is you're only thinking about what's happening on the other side of the world. I'm thinking about what's happening where I live. You're ignoring what is happening to Jewish people because you don't want to upset your allies in your movement.

    You're not the first person to look the other way when antisemitism was happening. You're not the first person to be in a movement that will ostracize you if you show any empathy for Jews. You have to continuously go back to the well and talk about what's happening elsewhere in the world while Jews in your own country are victims of racist violence.

    There are very strong parallels between your behavior and the behavior of groups in the past. You're in a hate group. You don't want to see yourself as a member of a hate group, so you won't look at the violence perpetrated against Jews that have never even been to Israel. You can't consider that this violence is being done by the members of the same group you're in.

    It's the same with white supremacists you know. If exposed to something that is clearly hateful towards black people they will go back to the warm comfort of a stream of information showing black people committing crimes.

    Did you do that after the Bondi massacre? After you catch a glimpse of a news article about synagogue being shot at? Just go back to a stream of data depicting Jews doing terrible things to cleanse the doubt from your mind so you can stay loyal to your hate group?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    As I said, there is a clear distinction between the actions of Israel the political entity and Jews the ethnic group. I absolutely condemn the actions of Israel. Unfortunately, other people who I am not in a group with use this to justify violence against Jews.

    Israel the political entity also encourages those violent actions against Jews, to create a rally around the flag effect.

    As long as both right wing neo-nazis and right wing Israeli leadership continue to draw an equivalence between Israel the political entity and Jews the ethnic group, people will feel justified attacking Jews in the name of harming Israel.

    Me? I don't attack Jews. But I am quite comfortable calling out Israel as a fascist state run by genocidal maniacs. If you can't make that distinction, then once again: I will not stop being anti-zionist.

    This is the downside of mixing religion and politics. Want to prevent anti-Semitic attacks that claim to defend Palestine? Work to make it very fucking clear that Israel the political entity does not speak for Jews the ethnic group. Or accept that you might become collateral damage.

    Edit: much like how I have accepted that me being an American citizen makes me a target for anti-trump foreign entities, regardless of my support for trump. And much like how I have accepted that my Russian heritage will likely mean I never visit Ukraine ever again, even though I think the Russian invasion was completely unjustified.

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